Every eBay vendor should have their feedback profiles run through the Toolhaus,so we know which ones to steer well clear of. Does anyone agree with me on this? Aidan.
in a perfect world, yes, things would be easy -- the best way to steer clear from the scammers and losers is as a wel known cautious moderator would say -- Knowledge is THE best way ... hehe
my father and i had a conversation last night about eBay. we came to the conclusion that the collectors buying from eBay are the same ones that buy from catalogues and magazine ads, and maybe even the TV. they never go to coin shops or shows and don't buy books. they buy on impulse and based on pretty pictures. IMO, eBay is like playing Russian roule with a Howitzer. i stopped using eBay because buyers have no recourse with eBay or their "side" company, PayPal. they are raking in the money and don't care what is happening. as long as they are making money, they see no problems. -Steve
I disagree. I've never used toohaus and I've had plenty of great ebay purchases. It comes down to the buyers taking responsibilty for their actions. No one is forcing you to buy. So, if you get taken...it's your own fault. Learn more about what you are buying. I've been ripped off by my local coin dealer more often than ebay. In this business, all sellers are looking out for their own self interest. There are con men in every coin store, in every town. That's how they pay rent by buying cheap and selling high. Run that through Toolhaus ...hahahaha.
Steve, that's an interesting, and substantially wrong, viewpoint. I have literally bought hundreds of coins through EBay, Yahoo, and other online auctions. I have also bought many coins from dealers - at shows, in their shops, through major nuimismatic auctions, and by mail. I have never bought a coin from a TV huckster or a non-numismatic catalog or print advertisement. The only fakes I have bought from any source are those I knowingly acquired at appropriate prices for my "black box". The only coins I have significantly "overpaid" for, were a couple that I wanted badly enough to pay the seller's price, even though it exceeded catalog values. I'll stack my numismatic library up against that of anyone in the world who speaks only English and a smattering of Japanese, and collects primarily modern Japanese coinage. In my specialty, I believe my library is more complete than anyone else's on this forum, including GDJMSP. Although there are many EBay buyers who fit your description, there are many more who are closer to my model. Only if you don't bother to learn about the coins you are buying and the people you are buying them from. The educated buyer is safe wherever he/she goes. BTW, Toolhaus is a useful tool, but fills only one compartment in the toolbelt. It is absolutely not a panacea!
of course not everyone buying from eBay fits that description. the conclusion was based on the seemingly endless misrepresented items presented for purchase - if someone wasn't buying the junk, it wouldn't be listed. the large number of alphabet TPG's are making money from eBay because they have names like the trusted TPG's. you fish where the fishing is good. my point was, that eBay is a haven for misdoing because the large majority of those that buy there are not well informed. there are plenty of collectors who never go to coin shows or shops because there are none close by. that leaves magazine ads, catalogues, the internet, and TV as the sources. someone is buying for those outlets to continue to exist. -Steve
Can you cite any scientific surveys which determined whether "the large majority of those that buy" are really uniformed? Or is that one of those statistics that Bonedigger's sig line refers to?
Roy,I like it how you run the feedback profiles of eBay vendors through the Toolhaus so we know how many negatives & neutrals they've got. We know which vendors to take a 2,000 foot poll to as a result. Aidan.
I just like holding thecoins in my hand that I'm buying (thats just me )and have always been ableto buy for decent prices This is just for reading http://www.devjobsmail.com/articles/sb/sb-article09.html http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2007/3/1172964115.html
SCIENCE and survey in the same sentence, shame on you. if the large majority aren't informed, how can the large number of bogus auctions and questionable TPG's thrive? they have to be selling to someone. spam email continues to thrive because it works - same principle. cast a net, a fish will eventually swim along and get snared. search eBay for Mercury dimes or Morgan dollars. you want to see people being taken, look at all the Presidential Dollar "errors" being sold. that alone is enough to convince me that there is a large, uninformed buying populace out there. they heard it on the news, they google it, they find an eBay listing, gotcha! i guess then you will want to argue the definition of a collector. are those $1 error buyers far to pedestrian to be collectors? i guess i might have to look for a better name for them since calling them a collector offends one's sensibility? how about sucker - that seems more apropos, yes? -Steve
local coin dealer elitists! "I've been ripped off by my local coin dealer more often than ebay. " I can concur with that. In fact it seems that all the coin dealers around my way think all THEIR stuff is the "best" in the world, and all YOUR stuff is awful, "has problems" -- By no means do I think I have fabulous coins either. It's just that I can't stand dealers who, when you show them a coin, they rattle off a dozen reasons why YOUR coin sucks but the exact same (or worst grade) coin THEY have is so much more valuable. I understand they are in business. But all I want is some honesty. Some standard excuses I've heard from the mouths of coin dealers: "There's no market for these anymore." "I buy these all day for half that price at (take your pick)" "No way this coin is a (whatever) grade. I don't care what PCGS says" =========== I've gotten some fabulous deals on eBay. And I've also bought some crud. You just have to be careful, and SELECT the times you want to bid. Friday nights is too crowded.
i'm not saying there aren't honest sellers and informed buyers on eBay, but there is a far more visible presence of questionable sellers with many auctions in the works and completed. sometimes, even being informed is no help if one doesn't take the time to really examine a coin. i have seen someone talk themselves into grading a coin better than it was simply because it filled a gap in the collection. maybe it was worth it to that collector to pay a little more for a borderline coin that only under very close inspection would prove to be a lesser coin. the world is full of maybes, and questionable eBay deals -Steve
I'm not going to quibble this subject to death, so this will be my last comment - "a large number" and "a large majority" are not the same. I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest about the quantity of ignorant, and in some cases even stupid, EBayers. I'm just not convinced that they include even a slim majority, let alone a large majority, of buyers in that venue.
i just realized i used an oxymoron - large majority. can some please show me a small majority. hahaha. -Steve
