READ THIS! The Next Generation Of Chinese Counterfeits Have Arrived

That is incorrect. And that would make YOU, incorrect. Could a convicted felon become President of the USA? Negative. Your crime against numismatics is appalling. What is even crazier is that it all boils down to ONE thing, your EGO. You have placed your ego above the site and hobby you should be protecting. The concept of you not being able to see this is just, nauseating.

 

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Actually you have the authority to do that also. Now THAT is scary... : - )

 

I agree with you that the Chinese fakes are at epidemic proportions. At least with the silver dollars seasoned collectors and novices have a little bit of a chance. I think the Chinese fakes are on the lips of every seasoned hobbyist. As for the novice collector they get some of it through the media. Not enough info but some. The big problem is faking the common dates of 1 cent to 50 cent and the art of it is being perfected every day. If we're flooded with those types of fakes I see that to be a tremendous problem. You have tons of the bullion collectors/hoarders and roll collectors putting these common dates away. Any help to identify them would be the first business of the coin forums. Not to hold back information that could help identifying these counterfeits. I wouldn't worry so much about the Chinese "eavesdropping" on these threads. They get enough feedback on their fakes, that is why they're perfecting them day-by-day.

 

No. I am not a moderator and therefore cannot abuse my powers. Can't ban people. Can't modify or silence content.

But, good attempt. At least we know where you stand in the lemming line.

 

And John59 want us to explain in detail what they got wrong so they can fix it and make it even more likely that people get burned and that the experts won't be able to recognize them. I guess it must be OK to buy a fake if no one can tell it's a fake.

Don't PUBLICLY diagnose the telltale signs.

Frankly I'm not a moderator but I have to agree with the statement. I don't like it, but it is true. The problem is how to get the information to those who need it to protect themselves without giving it to those people who will use it to hurt us further. I believe several people on here have said they would explain what they are seeing by PM. They just don't want to broadcast it to the world.

 

You need publicly tell the diagnostics of the fake. Keeping it a secret is only protecting a select few. In my opinion, probably sold a ton of them to people and don't want to give their money back. Just a thought. Do you really think the Chinese aren't making a better one now? The whole idea of any forum when a fake comes out is to publicize it as much as you can so this way it can be stopped. You are making this more of a mystery than what it is. I just think it's ridiculous. You're doing a great injustice to the hobby. All I see is that you're protecting the counterfeiters and the people who are selling it to the collectors and the public. Unacceptable behavior.

By the way, your first paragraph makes no sense.

 

Since I made the statement you're questioning, not John59, I will respond.

First, I have said NOTHING outside the bounds of truth, nor anything that would aide a counterfeiter "fix a flaw" that would allow him/her to get their fake past someone checking for fakes.

Second, it is possible to get counterfeits past an expert occasionally today, but getting one past more than one expert is NOT possible ... but at the rate of improvement these purveyors of fraud have had over the past decade, in improving their wares, I'm left wondering how far off such a possibility is.

Staying mum on topics that would help them "improve" their "art" will not stop or even slow them very much, especially with the ever growing number of YouTube videos, other blogs, collector forums, etc.. No one has enough power to stop all the various outlets that help counterfeiters produce better fakes.

 

I also think this is a mistake. I think you need to tell collectors

 

The sad part is that the counterfeiters know full well what the signs are that people can use to identify their coins. It's not an issue of that. The issue is about technology and the ability to produce a product that doesn't have these signs. For a common date coin like the OP one, it's probably not worth it to them to inject all that much $$$ into producing a flawless example.

 

So, does that mean you would ban people if you had this god-like power?

 

The problem is that technology has gotten so good that they can produce almost flawless examples of the common dates at a minimal cost and make a profit from it. It's to their benefit to keep it up and to better it. That's why we need to share information when we do find counterfeits.

 

Um, WHAT? I wish you could draw a line connecting your logic dots, but, wow man. Where did you even come up with that? What did I say that even remotely hints at that statement? Can you just hush for a little bit, you're just making yourself look, well, yeah....

 

I'm ok with it because nobody's been warned or banned, nor have any posts been removed for pointing out any of the flaws in the coin.

 

uh some of you think you know something those top counterfeiters don't lol The info you know could help people on here but they Chinese counterfeiters could care less they a few steps ahead of you any way

 

Why does it have to be only on this thread?

Derp. Derp.

 

I normally have no problem spotting most fakes, but I admit, I wouldn't have even thought twice to question this one. However, we really can't complain here about not being educated. There are countless books and references available with all the information one could possibly need to identify authentic coins from fakes. If you don't choose to take the time, perhaps coins shouldn't be your hobby.

 

I'm a bit confused here.

On the one hand, there are countless books and references available that will allow anyone to identify authentic coins from fakes. Through some deficiency I don't understand, counterfeiters are unable to learn from these books to improve their work.

On the other hand, we can't discuss details of how to diagnose fakes here on the Internet, because if we openly explain the diagnostics, the counterfeiters will promptly correct their errors.

If counterfeiters are agile enough to keep up with Internet discussions and improve their wares on an Internet timescale (i.e. very quickly), how can you say that static, long-published books contain "all the information one could possibly need to identify authentic coins from fakes", and why is every counterfeiter too stupid to take advantage of those same resources?

My personal take: it's a good deal easier to spot faults in a fake coin than it is to correct them, and it will always remain so. Eventually, some fakers will "correct" enough errors that there's little left to "spot" -- or maybe not; maybe they'll reach a point where correcting one error always leads to at least one new error.

In the meantime, though, open discussion on forums like this helps collectors a lot MORE than it helps counterfeiters. Again, solely my opinion, as a very junior participant in the hobby/business.

 

I'm in agreement with Jeff and others who think educating collectors about specific "tells" on a counterfeit is more helpful than harmful.

And here's a suggestion for those few who are already aware of the clues, a way to pass the information on to collectors here on the forum without giving too much information to the forgers...

(First, obviously the best way to find the "tells" is by examining multiples, at least two, of the same forgery. Those of us who are reading the forum don't have that opportunity.)

Okay, now say perhaps two, four, or six good tells are found. So disclose HALF of them. That way, readers here can spot the fakes, and you have kept secret half of the tells, so if the forgers fix the revealed mistakes, you will know it, and you will have accomplished your stated goal of not really educating the fakers.

I'm just saying...

-Dunc

 

Counterfeit American Eagle gold bullion coins improving in design quality
Ohio dealer receives eight fakes among 120 coins (article here)

Did Coin World complement the counterfeiters? Are they guilty of treason? The dealers are being fooled now every day. This person comes up on the forum with this incredible fake and won't share anything about it. I still say it's the most ridiculous thing in the world. I'd love to know how is he helping the hobby. I think the only person he's helping is the counterfeiters. What do you think?