READ THIS! The Next Generation Of Chinese Counterfeits Have Arrived

I'm really enjoying this banter. Is that the proper King's English ?

 

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NGC is trying to deal with the fake NGC slabs fake coins but real cert numbers they started buying slab labels so they can remove it from there database they pay 50cents per label. I know people who hate modern slabbed coins and bust open the slabs on all of them even proof 70 stuff

 

That wouldn't have much of an effect. The real cert numbers on the fake slabs aren't coming from slabs that have been cracked. They come from browsing Heritage, Stacks Bowers, even ebay and copying certificate numbers from slabs listed in the archives. Got a fake SVDB you want to put in a fake slab? Go to Heritage and search 1909 S VDB and you will have dozens if not hundreds of genuine certificate numbers to choose from. And as long as you don't do something stupid like trying to sell them all in the same place or time you can use the same cert# on dozens (hundreds?) of fake slabs.

 

Probably not, but it would certainly be easier to make the label look real if it were a real label. The TPGs certainly have some incentive to either keep those labels either inside their plastic or destroy them.

 

counterfeit. There are tells... which i'm not going to discuss here
If they are fake then tell us what we need to look for only you and the Chinese
know?

 

Providing information helps them but not us ?

 

Should I say here what I see in what is the real coin and what is the counterfeit ? Should you PM me ?

 

The only good is for the counterfeits and a few dealers. If collectors don't know about them how can they protect them self and the hobby if they fool the dealers
and are common dates or any coin that is passing with little problem
Holding the info is unrealistic is it that dealers sold them to collectors and are trying to hold back the info to save there money ?
This is just dumbest things ever why do the post I know but won't tell you and wait don't talk about there watching . New's they know now we will wait for the
third generation fakes but we won't tell you

 

I had a collector send me 85 Morgan dollars in two albums to sell for him. I returned to him 69 which were fakes. Not a good ratio. So if the question is: Buy a silver Chinese counterfeit quarter or not? Personally, I'd rather a novice collector buy the silver fake he could melt it down for the silver than to have to send this novice collector his "coins" back with the news that nearly 3 out of 4 were totally worthless.

 

You gotta be kidding me Buy a silver Chinese counterfeit quarter and all the fakes are silver ? and they sell them for less then the silver price

That real good get the collectors to by only fakes they will all ways be worthless
If novice collector buy a fake he won't be back

 

Obviously you didn't read what I wrote before firing off your response. To say it so even a child can understand, if a novice collector (someone who cannot tell the difference between real and fake) is going to buy fake coins, I'd rather they buy one made of silver (that has some value in the silver content alone) than to have to tell them they have spent $5,000 of a pile of worthless junk!!! I am not advocating they buy fakes rather than genuine coins, but if they don't know enough to be able to tell one from the other, I'd rather they get some small value out of their purchase than to have no value.

 

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Did you really think this through? Yes, I know what a novice collector is. So you're saying for a novice collector to buy $5000 worth of coins that are fake and when he tries to sell them to you, wow they're fakes. But you didn't lose all your money. You got a whole $50 in silver with it. If a novice buys a fake, we generally lose them from the collecting hobby. If a seasoned collector buys a fake he is pissed off like hell and could probably turn them off too from buying for a while.

The coin hobby has been going down for years. The fakes are probably just one part of it. The novice collectors are buying coins from the government if they want the silver and gold. Why? Because they can't trust the damn coin dealers.

Now with this lack of sharing knowledge, as the original poster did, makes our hobby a safer place.

 

I make my living by selling and repairing guitars and have major issue with the amount of counterfeiting in China - I'm still amazed at the people who come to me after knowingly (sometimes not) buying a Chinese knock-off and thinking in some way it'll be salvageable...it's always the same cheap parts thrown together as quickly as possible - I've even seen a tremolo system with "Rhythm In Jump, Dancing Close To You" imprinted on it (???), not even sure how they came up with that one lmao But now they're counterfeiting coins...Guess I shouldn't be surprised at all. Thanks to the OP for the heads-up on these.

 

The Chinese have been counterfeiting for years. From guitars, to coins, to medicine. The thing now is that you have all types of qualities of fakes. You have the ones that are completely garbage and than you have the ones that you need to be an expert to tell the difference. In my opinion, the Chinese fakes are worse than drugs. We couldn't win the war on drugs, I would like to see how we're going to deal with the Chinese fakes.

One other thing, just about all of our products are made in China. So they're knockoffs are just as good as the originals. Wait, they're made in the same factory.

 

John, do you ever read and think before replying? I ask because your response says you don't. The novice did not try to sell me fakes. We live 600 miles apart and have never met. He knows me by reputation and therefore feels he can trust my opinion and honest actions on his behalf due to how I treated someone he does know. He sent me coins he has purchased during the past 20 years to evaluate, list and sell for him on consignment. HE ALREADY OWNED THE COINS, as in past tense, and he had no record of what dealers sold them to him. So he is not mad at me, or anyone else, and would not be buying more coins anyway since he decided to liquidate his collection. I feel bad for him because he was expecting $5000+/- and instead will get a few hundred. In light of the news that his collection consists of mostly counterfeits, a consolation prize might have been that his fakes contained some silver, so that he could have gotten at least 1% back of his loss (due to the small silver content) rather than nothing. I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "Something is better than nothing", well 1% is better than zero.

Here is another example to try and get thru to you what I've been saying. Say you had made it a habit of dropping your change in a cup for months with the thought of going thru it later, then one day you start to fish out quarters only to discover you have received $25 in counterfeit quarters, which shop gave you those fake quarters? Would you be pissed off at every store you remembered buying anything from during the previous months? I can't speak for you but most people would not. So you have $25 in counterfeit quarters in hand. Do you try to pass them off to someone else, or take it out off circulation? Would you rather the 100 quarters (you already have in hand) be counterfeit clad quarters, or counterfeit silver quarters? If you've ALREADY lost $25 would you rather just stamp them all "COPY" and throw them away because they are clad junk, or be able to recoup some of your loss from them from the silver content?

 

Okay, now you gave the whole story. The guy sent you his coins for you to sell for him. He got his consolation prize. In fact, he got more. He got way more than the 1% that you're advocating. What is your point with this?

Silver or no silver they're fake. I can't see how he was happy with it. I would have been pissed like hell. This person is not collecting anymore like you said. But there's thousands that get burned with these counterfeits. They do not return to the collecting hobby. Advocating any consolation to the Chinese fakes is ridiculous.

As for your example of the quarters, what would you do?

 

Of course he's POed; only an idiot would not be. Only he doesn't know who to be ticked off at.

But no, he did not get 1% or anything. His fakes were all boxed up and returned to him without a single sale. I don't deal in fakes and advised him to not try it either. I told him (in writing) if he wanted to take them to a local coin dealer for a second opinion he should, but to advise the dealer that he had been told these were fakes up front, so the dealer would not think he was a "source" for all the counterfeits and turn him in to the law. The same went for trying to sell them on eBay, or anywhere else, or he could be seen as guilty under the law as the counterfeiter themselves.

I agree with you that there are thousands of these fakes floating around that burn people regularly. They even occasionally get by an expert's examination. If one looks at the mintage totals of silver dollars versus the sheer number of them for sale regular on eBay alone, simple math indicates that many of those listings have to be fakes. I've just never seen so many fakes in one collection as this poor man had in his.

As for your final point we will just agree to disagree as I would rather have a silver Chinese fake I discovered I'd gotten in change than a clad/other metal fake. I would much rather spend an afternoon in melting/recovering the silver content I could then sell, than an afternoon stamping "COPY" on a slug that went in a box of junk for which I could get no value in return.

 

Don't diagnose the telltale signs on the counterfeit coin; it will assist the counterfeiters in their craft. I am still digesting the fact that GDJMSP is a moderator on a coin site and believes that statement. The scary part is he has been given the authority to do so. How is anyone ok with that?