My New (Almost) Ancient (Sort of) Gold Coin.

Those of you who know me best know I don't buy gold for the very obvious reason, but after seeing some electrum and gold coins from @Collect89, @TIF and @AncientJoe, @stevex6 I had no choice but to seek out Gold.

I really have been thinking about stepping up my game and acquiring a fabulous gold coin and I have been aware of mis-attributed gold coins existing in the realm of the bottom feeders for quite sometime. I was able to isolate an example from a very reputable dealer who is willing to make a deal.

The one I selected is a rare issue of Yasovarman of Kannauj. A foreign (Huna) warlord in the power vacuum caused b the death of Harsha (my avatar) in North India . The historical record is scarce and most of the info on Yasovarman comes from 2 main documents. An epic poem written by Vakpati during his lifetime, which claims he was the incarnation of Vishnu and was undefeated and subjected many lands to his rule. He claimed decent from the king Kidarite Hun Kidara and thus called himself Kushan. He allied himself with Tang China to crush the Tibetans. He sought to push art and science forward. Another 13th century manuscript says Yasovarman was was an epic ruler who was defeated by a King in Kashmir but this story reads like fiction. (according to scholars) There is little else to go on here, just that some weird gold coins pop up in the record when almost no others are present. I was doing some research into the type and they are very incosistant with alloy. Some have a gold content of about 30% (9K) most are ~58% (14K) few are (22K). Some are rose gold, alloyed with copper. Some are electrum alloyed with silver. Based on the dimensions color, weight and date its Electrum probably 14-18K not white enough to be white gold. I suspect the coin has a hint of green which would suggest silver alloy. The coin approximately the same diameter and thickness of a early third century Roman Double denarius.

I employed the knowledge of the ancients and my uber sensitive fluid densitometer and an analytic balance in order to extrapolate the density of the coin. The coin has a density of 15.21 g / cm3. I then did a little math based on the densities of the three top coin metals, Gold, Silver and Copper and also applied a Gold alloy triangle chart to compare color to the coin and I with some certainty I was able to determine the mass% of the constituents in this case Gold and Silver. I have the exact numbers on my desk at the office but it was nearly 50:50. 53% Gold 47% Silver. Electrum!!!!

Now before some other science(ish) person rips my head off, there are certain difficulties in determining purity based on SG. You need a sufficiently dense fluid (I used reagent Type II Water) and your specimen has to free of encrustation, oils and you have to eliminate air trapped between your solid and fluid that can adversely affect your result. So there is a slight margin of error in my calculation. I attempted to mitigate the error by performing my experiment at a constant temperature of 15.56 deg C. / 60 deg F in an inert Argon bag environment as well as performing a thorough acetone wash before hand. Light trace metals also can cause some error in calculation, since I was able to mitigate most causes of error, I consider the error to be minute.

So I correct the scholars and say this coin is electrum not "base" gold.

As far as these coins are concerned I had to get the Rare and probably the most awesome king.

I will not attempt to butcher the complex history of post-Gupta India. So for some nice easy reading check out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yashovarman

Kidarite Huns
India, Kannauj
Yashosvarman of Kannauj (AD 728-745)
EL Dinar 22 mm x 7.56 grams
Obverse: Formalized Kushan-style king sacrificing left; below arm, Kidara; in left field, Ka.
Reverse: Semi-realistic goddess Ardoksho (Tyche) enthroned facing, holding garland and cornucopiae; in right field, Sri Yasova; in left field, Rma.
Ref: Smith (1906), Indian Museum Calcutta, Vol. I, Part III, p. 268, 1ff and pl. XXVII, 6; MACW 3649 ("Kidarites", 5th C.). Good Very Fine. Rare.

 

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I've been looking forward to you posting this coin. So, you did little science on it, huh?

 

A-noob, your entire presentation and the science behind your conclusions leaves me a bit awed and flabbergasted (I always wanted to use that word in a sentence).

I leave it to JA (or Steve) to challenge and refute your findings

And, I love that coin and all things Electrum!!!

 

Just a little.

 

I refute your findings because...

 

All joking aside, I'm impressed with your measuring the specific gravity. How accurate is that compared to something like an X-ray fluorescence test?

You should announce your findings at FORVM.

 

That's alright, I write like a 6th grader so it doesn't surprise me.

 

I think you should consider JA's findings. Congratulation Anoob.

 

X-ray is largely limited to surface analysis.

I do not have many of these coins to make a larger data set. So the results remain inconclusive as something definitive of the series. I performed the experiment twice 15.19 and I didn't check my results and chocked it up to rounding error....

 

After reviewing your link, I'm even more intrigued by the term/title 'Kidarite Huns' since I didn't notice any mention of it in that wiki article (and no I wasn't drinking today, just doing yard work sober).

Care to elaborate on it??

I accept your conclusions wholeheartedly and I think your prose is near excellent!!

 

Fascinating, isn't it?

Yes, the coins connection to the Kidarites is derived from the legend device on the coins. It is unknown weather the Kidara was a way of claiming direct dynastic lineage or weather the person was merely a using the name as a title kind of like Caesar or Augustus. The term Huna is a general term used to lump foreigners in India. Stylistically the coin is Kushan and Kushan tradition is persevered by the Kidarites in India.

Take a look at Kidara patriarch of the dynasty. I was fortunate to acquire a very rare Sassanian style silver of him naming himself, Kushan. I am sure if I go digging then I can find a Kushan who calls himself Basilos, Soter or Megas.

Take a look at Kidara the Patriarch of the Kidarites.

Scarey....ain't it guys.

 

No need to refute the Lagrangian density equations of the Standard Model The LHC has recently found even more supporting evidence for them as they stand. Although, this image is a highly impractical way of displaying them.

 

Really nice addition to the collection, noob. If that's a "semi-realistic" depiction of the goddess, I really want to see the abstract version! Also love how you scienced-up your post. C'mon, mods, Feature this thread!

 

At request, the abstract version (Anonymous 5th-8th century AD):


And the classical version (Kipunada, ca 375 AD):

 

Fantastic, thanks! What dates do we have for those two?

 

That's a very sweet new Indian goldie you've got there, my friend ...

=> congrats, ANoob!! (very cool coin)

Curious? ... did you take your new coin to work and use their lab, or do you have
an uber sensitive fluid densitometer and an analytic balance at home for performing miscellaneous experiments to "wow" your wife and Nooborn?

Congrats again on your slick new coin-addition

 

I was going to refute the premise with this article I wrote, but I concede to AJ's superior resonse.

 

Love all the info and those great coins of THcoins!!!

Hmmm, after all this 'Science' and TIF's application article, I think I'm ready for my old comic books...Hey, Sheldon loves them too!!!

 

Forgive me, but what is this? It's some kind of telephony analysis? It doesn't really make much sense to me? How does it apply to the coin or methodology? Please elaborate I am interested. Is this an inside joke of some sort?

 

It was just a joke-- me trying to sound smart. This website generates impenetrable, nonsensical science-like "research" papers. It would have been funnier if it allowed user input of the scientific field but it is limited to computer-related spoofing
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/