I read -- during the financial problems in Egypt (back in 2011) -- that the Royal Mint in Great Britain was greatly troubled. As the RM mints many coins for Egypt, and may lose millions in the upheavals! In fact the article stated that Egypt and Russia were two of the largest clients for the RM. (I think I can dig up the article if needed, but trust me, I recall it correctly -- actually it was printed in 2011 in The Guardian.) I know the RM (and others) mint coins for many many client nations: but two questions -- if I may: (1) I assume that the RM added a Cairo mint mark to the RM minted coins (certainly the bi-metals!), I wonder if they also add a PM Logo mint mark for the Petersburg mint in Russia too??, and... (2) Does anyone have additional information clarifying who mints what?? I would appreciate some input or any helpful data. I know who Canada mints for, and I know who the U.S. used to mint for, thats all old hat, but how can we evaluate coins and mints if we do not know who minted for whom? (3) So....If Mexico is minting coins for Peru and putting on them a Lima logos mint mark, who is minting that coin? Unless you were told, you would NOT know. I cry unfair. GSDykes
In many cases we know about where a coin was minted. But the governments/mints involved do not always make such info available. Also, a mint mark may, or may not, appear on the coin. The Schön catalog (in German) is pretty good when it comes to listing which mint made what coins, but in lots of cases the authors do not have the information either. Then again, what's the big deal? If a certain type of coin was made at different locations, and there is no mint mark, then the value will be the same regardless of the mint. If there is a MM, it becomes relevant only in case one mint made a much higher volume than another ... Christian
I never know that Royal Mint produced coins for Russian Federation. We have two own Mints: in Moscow and in Saint Petersburg.
The Guardian article says that "Egypt is the Royal Mint's second-largest foreign customer, behind Russia, accounting for a substantial chunk (...)" Then again, CoinsWeekly pointed at some error in the article (link to the original text at the bottom). So maybe there are other mistakes too. We should also keep in mind that, in some cases, local laws require an "issuer" mark on the coins, regardless of where they are actually minted. Christian
It could be possible that the Royal Mint just supply planchets to Russia. However I think it is very unlikely as both St. Petersburg and Moscow mints are more than capable of striking coins for overseas. This is a very, very difficult topic which I have been attempting to tackle for the past decade (no joke about the time frame). I've managed to compile a list of countries that have their own mints, central bank etc. List can be seen here: http://gxseries.com/worldmoneylist.htm However to track who issued what coins, this can be more complicated than expected. For instance, country A supplies raw material to country B. Country B then processes it and manufacture planchets. This is then exported to Country C. Therefore, if you ask the question of country of origin, what would you say? The only instance that I can remember RM mintmark was used was coins struck for Uzbekistan. This is an example:
I would say that the country of origin was whatever country actually struck the coins. In other words it would be where the mint was physically located. That said, the country of origin and the country who actually issues the coins may well be different countries. To me, it boils down to a matter of definitions. Country of origin is defined as where the coins were physically made. Country of issue is the country which releases the coins into circulation or sells them directly to the public as collectibles. And the supplier of raw materials has nothing to do with anything.
CHRISILD wrote: Then again, what's the big deal? If a certain type of coin was made at different locations, and there is no mint mark, then the value will be the same regardless of the mint. If there is a MM, it becomes relevant only in case one mint made a much higher volume than another It matters a lot to me. Have you ever examined how a 10 Rouble 1991 bi-metallic was formed? Cut one open, and you can see the very inferior craftsmanship! The joining of the rings is crude! (at least as viewed from the inside). Indicative of the fact that this truly was Russia's first modern bi-metallic, and that it was indeed minted in the great land of Russia. Metallurigical studies can be relevant here too!! And this is just a beginning, think of the politics and histories involved, as well as the type of equipment used (300 ton presses, or???). GXSERIES wrote: This is a very, very difficult topic which I have been attempting to tackle for the past decade (no joke about the time frame). I've managed to compile a list of countries that have their own mints, central bank etc. List can be seen here:http://gxseries.com/worldmoneylist.htm WOW!, thanks for the link, I see you too sense some of the importance of trying to unravel who minted what where, when and of what material. It is complex, as even court orders have failed to move the Royal Mint to divulge who it mints for...they claim it is a sensitive political issue. Here is a link to the post about Egypt and Russia, from the Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/13/egypt-crisis-threatens-mint-contract
SIBERIAN MAN wrote: I never know that Royal Mint produced coins for Russian Federation. We have two own Mints: in Moscow and in Saint Petersburg. I believe the RM has secretly been doing so for some time, but few know which coins are minted in England, I suspect that most of your newer bi-metallics are!! And certainly Russia supplies their own planchet materials! GSDykes
GDJMSP wrote, in part; And the supplier of raw materials has nothing to do with anything. Indeed, Ghana was/is named the "country of gold", and its gold financed many wars and political intrigues, as well as coins for the great British empire! without that great supply of gold, histories and past coinage mintages would have been different!! So it does matter, in numerous other ways as well! GSDykes
My apologies - I got Royal Mint and Pobjoy Mint mixed up. In some mints' annual report, they report details of whom the clients are. I know the Royal Australian Mint does but it doesn't seem to be the case with the Royal Mint, UK. Link here: http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/annual-report As of what the UK could have supplied to Russia, I suspect it would be the plated brass 10 ruble planchets. I somewhat doubt UK has supplied bi-metal coins to Russia as Russia has experimented with bimetal coins in 1991. Sometimes, a mix of foreign planchets can lead to insane wild error coins. This for instance details some error coins in Australia. http://www.australian-threepence.com/blog/2012/09/2-struck-on-euro-10c-planchet.html The biggest challenge is to identify suppliers that are not necessary government mint that supplies planchets. It could easily be companies that only roll metal sheets. Oh the joy of globalization - I guess.
Admittedly I tend to not cut or otherwise damage the coins that I use or collect. Yes, I find the information (about which coin was minted where) interesting, but if the contract between a government and a producer says that the info is not public ... And yes, if I was some issuing authority, and got pieces of inferior quality, I would complain and/or place my order elsewhere next time. As a mere cash user, however, I do not really care about where the money that I use every day is made. Christian
gxseries: Again thanks for the link to the RM, I have been there before. Great stuff!! chrisild: I cut in half many bi-metallic coins to ascertain their method of manufacture. I then connect that method with known patented processes. I began with the first modern bi-metallic (the 500 lire) and as shown above, I commented upon the method used in the 1991 Russian 10 Rouble. You may recall that in 1996 Canada had trouble with their very first bi-metallic, and Germany came to their rescue, with a fine striking method. Some are joined with plastic -- flowing metal into grooves in the harder metal under striking pressure. Others have anti spin notches etc.. It is interesting, at least to me to observe and note the various engineering techniques used. I also collect bi-metallics which are the first year of certain countries. The only way to examine early bi-metallic construction, is to open one up! After cutting them in half, I polish the sections, and place the three parts into a 2x2, and the core, ring and joined sections are all visible. The 2x2's then join my bi-metallic collection. I am also member 578 (I think thats my number) of the Worldwide Bi-Metallics Collectors Club. WBCC. GSDykes
Ah, now I see where you come from, so to say. And understand why this can be relevant. Here in Germany the mints usually put their marks on (domestic) coins; with pieces made for other countries it depends on what the issuing authority wants. In cases like Latvia it is pretty obvious; the central bank publishes detailed information about what denomination was minted at what mint in what year. The coins do not have mint marks but, thanks to that info, we know where a coin is from. Amusing side note: Once in a while Germany issues collector coins that have no mint mark, so that collectors can more easily say "oh, I just need one, not all five". Does that actually work? Of course not, hehe. For QC reasons some mark is required, so they came up with silly differentiations e.g. the pattern of a sports shirt depicted on a coin, or the length of the middle horizontal bar of the letter "E". And some collectors will closely inspect any "unmarked" German coin for such differences ... Christian
I know that the South Korean Mint, Komsco, mints the Israeli New Sheqel, and had completed an order for Peruvian banknotes last year: 305 Million 50 Nuevo Soles in June 2014. Komsco has made currency for: Japan, Switzerland, Vietnam, Thailand, Peru and Indonesia. Below is what they make, either for the S. Korean govt. and businesses, or for foreign entities: Banknotes Coins Passports Cashier's cheques Postage stamps Excise stamps Vouchers and gift certificates Security cards and ID cards.
Chrisild and mlov43: You both with gxseries and others have really inspired me! Thank you, and thank you for the great information. The camaraderie ( Gemeinschaft) here is really supportive, stimulating! Again thanks. eat, sleep, pray, study.
By the way, Komsco will be the guest of honor at next year's World Money Fair. Mentioned at the bottom. Text in German, but February is still far anyway. Christian
New Zealand is also a good example. If I recall correctly, almost all of New Zealand coins were struck overseas, mostly in UK, Canada and Australia. Some were minted in Norway and South Africa. Strangely enough, New Zealand mint is NOT owned by the government and is privately owned unlike what many would imagine.
Similarly, the Polish Mint (Mennica Polska) is a stock corporation controlled by the Multico group. The mint "went public" a couple of years ago, which also means that some newer Polish coins have been made elsewhere (Royal Mint, UK). On the other hand, Mennica Polska makes lots of collector coins for many other countries ... Christian
