Fake Counterfeit Coin Question

Wouldn't a fake counterfeit be... a legitimate coin? ;-)

It's like a double negative.

(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

 

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Tell all this to China, see if they will listen.

 

Fake Counterfeit

Isn't that a redundancy?



oops!

already noted above

 

Yes, you are definitely wasting your time signing a petition, etc.

It's waaaay too profitable for the company and the government, and the U.S. will never press the case, since the Chinese have the capability, any day of the week, to wreak havoc with U.S. interest rates, plus they need the foreign exchange.

Follow the money. It's like drugs - go after the buyers, not the sellers. Ask yourself, why would anybody (worldwide) buy these fakes, in such large quantities? Answer, to cheat ignorant, unsophisticated buyers.

 

by the way the coin I show in my response was in an envelope in a desk drawer in my moms house after her passing. She had no idea it was fake probably thought it would be a great piece to give to my brother or me. There are three of these. She didn't know they were fake, if she had only looked at the date.

 

I've said it before. The problem isn't China. In almost every case of counterfeit products imported into the US, there was an American running the show. A lot are made here.

 

The problem IS China.

Regardless of who's running the show, trying to get the Chinese to halt production [at the source] is a monumental waste of time.

Regardless of which nationality "runs the show," the fakes find their way to the U.S., because that's where the money is, as well as the demand. If the U.S. Treasury would confiscate these fakes, instead of fooling around with North Korea, Iran, Libya, and a few others, the business would dry up.

I mean, get serious, these ARE mostly fakes of legal tender coins, no great rocket science (or further justification or enabling legislation) needed in this particular case. My guess would be that Treasury has strict orders from the White House to keep "hands off" this enterprise.

But it's too late now, the time to act was the day Alibaba (and many others) listed their first historical replicas.

 

So you know for a fact that all the counterfeit coins and currency in America are Chinese? That's simply amazing. The prisons here are full of entrepreneural Americans that don't follow the rules and make their own currency. I guess we should turn them loose because they aren't a problem.

 

People forget that before the high quality Chinese counterfeits coming on the market in the past 6-7 years or so, there were plenty of very well made and convincing counterfeits flowing in from Europe. What makes you think these are not still being made parallel to Chinese fakes? Yes, China has a large market share of counterfeits that we currently see, but they are by no means the only source.

 

In my opinion the ONLY way to stop counterfeiting is to make it unprofitable. The ONLY way to do that is to educate the consumers. No market, no profit.

 

Domestic prosecutions for counterfeiting are rare, and those that exist usually aren't counterfeiting coins.

 

No, I don't and I never said that, and you deliberately twisted my words. My response reflected the original "idea" to create a petition. You are very naive to think that any great quantity of counterfeits (of the type we're discussing) are products of the U.S.; Chinese manufactures may be drop-shipped here for distribution, but China has unbeatable advantages -- cheap labor, plentiful silver, and quiet encouragement from the (Chinese) government.

Besides, we're talking numismatic counterfeits here -- spendable fake U.S. currency, which you lumped into the mix, is a whole different issue. Rather surprising where the top producers are:

"...With its meticulous criminal craftsmen, cheap labor and, by some accounts, less effective law enforcement, Peru has in the past two years overtaken Colombia as the No. 1 source of counterfeit U.S. dollars, says the U.S. Secret Service, protector of the world's most widely traded currency..."

Before China (the PROBLEM) got into this business 10 or 15 years ago, I'm sure the majority of counterfeit numismatic coins originated in the U.S., as you said, or Russia/Eastern Europe. Now those sources can't begin to compete on price, technique, or capacity. And the U.S. is in no position to force the issue. Nobody cares.

If Steve Roach of Coin World schedules a talk (on Chinese counterfeits) at a club near you, go have a listen.

Quote: "Yes, China has a large market share of counterfeits that we currently see, but they are by no means the only source." Hmm, looks like China IS the problem, the biggest problem, the industry leader.

Quote: "The ONLY way to do that is to educate the consumers..." (exactly what I implied) >> It's like drugs - go after the buyers...but in addition to educating them, confiscate any the Feds find. That oughta keep 'em busy a few years.

 

China is the leader for cheap, lower quality fakes - that is certain. As far as the best and most deceiving fakes... the line is much more blurry.

 

Unfortunately the only way to make counterfeiting any given thing unprofitable is if there is no demand for said thing

 

Personally, I would buy the OP's coin, as a contemporary counterfeit, and that means that I consider it a collectible, not a modern piece of junk

 

I think the govt is more concerned with the groups re-creating their paper bills more than the collectible coin market which affects a very small percentage of people in comparison.
The paper counterfeiting is happening all over the world. They'll set up a counterfeiting operation in a hole in the middle of nowherein a South American rain forest. Which is why our currency is constantly changing with newer tech.

Local grocery store doesn't trust $20 bills anymore. They mark every one. Seems like that used to be reserved for higher bills.

 

the old law made the manufacture or importation of unmarked copies for distribution in commerce illegal. The amended version also makes selling them illegal as well.

It also makes it illegal to assist anyone in manufacturing, importing, distributing, or selling unmarked copies. (This is what puts ebay on the spot if they are shown the coins are fake and they don't stop the auctions, they are assisting the selling in violation of the HPA.)

It also makes it illegal to copy the trademarks of the TPG's (basically outlaws fake slabs as well.)

One thing that DIDN'T change is that it is still only applicable to umarked copies made AFTER Nov 29th 1973.


I don't believe the OP coin was made before 11/29/73, I also do not believe it is silver. It may not be magnetic but I think it is a modern fake made within the past 15 years.

 

Curious: I have been involved in manufacturing for 35+ years. We manufactured all over the globe, and even effectively manufactured many products cheaper than the Chinese (virtual "lights-out" processes). There was a period of time when we were able to work with Metal Injection Molding and really bang out high-quality, lower cost metal parts/product. When you speak of "Cast Metal" counterfeits, are you including this process? My concern is how well technology has evolved since the 80's/90's when this process was first starting up. Because, even at that time, very tight tolerances were attained, and excellent quality product came out of the molds... THAT is a technology China as well as anyone in the world possesses. Does anyone know if this has ever been encountered in fake coins?

 

Double post .

 

Double post? What does that mean?