1909-S VDB Should I resubmit it?

We all know it's better than MS65RB. By the books, better than $4700, better than $3500. I was generalizing, not appraising, on these marginal pictures.

 

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This coin is closer to Red than it is to Brown and closer to MS66 than MS65.

 

MS65 RED's are selling for $3200 so I think $3,000 covers the "closer to red" pricing. And I have no idea how you know it is "closer to MS66 than MS65". CAC only indicates it is a normal 65 or better and those pictures are definitely not capable of distinguishing 65/66.

 

Exactly, and I think it is at the low to middle end of that range. For the money cited by others ($4700-$5000) you can buy a very nice MS65 RD maybe a MS65+ RD without spotting, etc.

 

Look on Heritage right now and find an MS65RD without carbon spots. I didn't look at all the RDs but the ones I did look at are spotted. Translated, "distracting." The redder they are, the more distracting the spots, the more the spots draw the eye.

 

So how did you go from selling junk silver to gem bu svdb's?

 

I premised what I said on the pictures, and that the coin looks flawless to me on the pictures. As for CAC, while they're agreeing on 65, it could be just shy of 66. Only when CAC can say it should be the next highest grade will they stick gold on it. I do think it's closer to 66 than 65. From these pictures, I think it's just shy of 66.

 

So I see a lusterless coin that was lucky to get a 65. And it has spots. Now what do you think it grades?

 

Based on what you're seeing, rhetorical question, 65.

 

Not rhetorical. I counted 4 spots and that coin honestly looks lusterless. You can argue all you want with my descriptions, but the main point is that the pictures are not clear enough to grade the coin from. BTW, I think I can detect 3 nicks/scratches on top of the rest, but I cannot tell for sure.

 

I struck Gold!

 

@LostDutchman I'm sure you've seen a lot of these fancy lincolns what do you think of it?

 

Congratulations on your strike

 

The question was rhetorical. If that's what you're seeing, of course I agree with your grade, I'm not arguing with it.

I think this is the time one of us says, "I think we need better pictures."

 

Let the record reflect, I'm seeing it in much this same way, and I'm not even an experienced dealer. I'm an experienced collector, however, and I know what turns me on. And one thing I've learned over the years is, I'm disappointed, every time, when I buy a coin for the grade on the label, in preference to a lower-grade coin that's just plumb yards better in terms of eye-movement.

Let it suffice, I understand, all too well, what's meant when we reference an AU58 as "AU64." The coin is just that much better than MS60, MS61, indeed, in a number of the cases, better than MS62, even MS63. The same, exact, collector-rationale, here, in evaluating this coin's value. Yesterday I had double-checked the MS65s on Heritage, and, at a better grade, in RD, as opposed to RB. I couldn't find one without distracting, black carbon spots on it. Contrasted against that bright, lustered, RD background, those black carbon spots are like eye-magnets. From an experienced collector standpoint, trying to appreciate the coin, my eye is moving all over the place for them.

I understand the relationship between eye-movement and how I feel about a coin. I understand, for example, an MS66 Morgan Dollar, clean as a whistle, but with a bright, red toning spot on the nose, is a distorted eye-movement through that coin, for that red spot, which, in turn, negatively-affects my feelings on the coin. To feel real good about the coin, I have to take my eye off the red spot, off the coin, and put it on the grade on the label, "MS66," and that just never worked for me.

I'd rather keep my eye on the coin. From a collector standpoint, I'm collecting coins, not grades on labels. From an experienced standpoint, I understand the relationship between eye-movement through the coin, and my feelings on the coin, when I look at the coin, and I value coins with uninterrupted eye-movement, and, likewise, devalue coins with interrupted eye-movement. I understand what's meant when we reference AU58 as "AU64." I value those AU58s, pretty much, accordingly. Same philosophy, same rationale, in valuing this coin.

There's an issue, due to these lousy pictures. The coin is hard to evaluate for those. I'm seeing, pretty much, flawlessness, whereas rlm's cents, another experienced collector, is seeing lusterless, dings and spots. Duh? We need better pictures. This is an SVDB. One doesn't evaluate it on lousy pictures. I rest my case.

 

For those opining that the OP's coin is worth $5k, here is a spot free 65 RD that sold for less than $4k:

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/260289/1909-S-Lincoln-Cent-VDB-PCGS-MS-65-RD

Here is another for $4500:
http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/268788/1909-S-Lincoln-Cent-VDB-PCGS-MS-65-RD

And finally a MS65+ RD CAC for $5800:
http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/271523/1909-S-Lincoln-Cent-VDB-PCGS-MS-65-RD-CAC

 

I didn't hear anybody "opining" it's worth $5000. I did hear somebody say, "That's a $5000 coin, in my book," and, "I was generalizing, not appraising, on these marginal pictures." Oh, wait, that was me, that's where I heard that. Give us better pictures, porcupine, I'll "opine."

 

I'm not sure if I can take better pictures.

 

The pictures are actually fairly descent, but they are so small and any attempt to enlarge them pixelate too much to see any detail. Is there any way to get the original pictures larger?

 

They're pixelated, yes, that's the problem. For those YNs who may need further elaboration on that sophisticated terminology, here you go...