Need help with attribution confirmation

Evening CTers,

First thank all you ancient collectors. I always enjoy reading the informative and historical threads. I have never been disappointed by each of your coins and their stories of acquisition. I myself acquired my first piece. The price was not bad and I myself would spend more on myself for lunch. I wanted to be able to hold a piece of history and also push the limit on the oldest coin I owned. I want to know if I am correct in it's details so it can be properly labeled in my collection.


Hadrian Alexandria
117AD-138AD
10.2 g ( I weighed )
31mm ( I measured )
Billon Tetradrachm - I was not sure what this ment. Does it mean it's a silver alloy?
Obverse: laureate draped bust
Reverse: Demeter standing with grain-ears and torch. It has a L in the upper left field. K in the lower left field and A in the lower right field.

Any help with confirmation is appreciated. Also share any history or links to coins of similarity. I am more than eager to learn at least about this first one so I can accurately speak of it. Lastly thank you for the interest of such coins, it's because of you.

 

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It's rough, but I think it can be attributed as:

Alexandria Milne 1525

Hadrian AR Tetradrachm of Alexandria. Year 21. Laureate head right / L K A, Demeter standing left wearing long chiton, holding long torch & grain ears.

 

welcome to ancient KSS!

yeah you got it, billon is a debased silver alloy.

that coin seems quite larger than the usual alexandrian tet? is that a drachm?

 

I am still so new to the terminology. I am guessing yes it's a drachm but I say that not knowing what it means.

Bing's post was very helpful as I figured it would be if he happened to chime in.

 

Don't give me too much credit. Much of my attribution is guess work since the coin, especially the reverse, is in hard to read condition. There are actually several coins identified by Milne that your coin might just be; however, I think I'm close.

Welcome to the ANCIENT's forum. Picking up a Hadrian as your first Ancient is pretty good. I'm not asking you to reveal what you paid, but like all other numismatics, the condition matters. My first coins are the ones I look at now and wonder why I got them in the first place.

Also, don't hesitate to ask for attribution or authenticity help. Many of us here appreciate helping new collectors.

 

It was barely labeled what it even was. I got it because it was the largest in size and heaviest and I assumed billon was "silver." Also it was one of the oldest that this local shop had. It was labeled for a price of $40 and I asked if he would take $30 which he said yes. There were smaller pricey ones and had more detail but I wanted a "chunk" of history. This one seemed like a good first and prolly my only for now as the budget needs to be utilized else where.

 

We all have to budget, so we all understand. But we hope this is not your only foray into Ancients. There is a world of history waiting to be discovered.

As far as the price you paid, it was a fair price. You say you got it at a local coin shop? Most of the shops I visit don't carry Ancient's on any kind of regular basis. However, I visited one today which just happened to have a Littleton collection of probably 80 plus coins most of which were in VF condition. The shop owner does not deal in Ancients and is looking to unload the entire collection at once. He offered them to me for $500 but I'm certain he would take $400 just from comments he made. If that's the case, I could have them all at an average price of $5 each. Even the worse in that book was worth $5, and there are a few worth well over $100. I'm considering it, but I think I would need to unload many if I do to help with my budget. My point in telling all this is that there will always be deals to be had. You just need to bide your time and be always watchful.

 

The type was issued in regnal years 14 (Emmett's rarity assignment of "R5?"), 18 (R3), and 21 (R1). Note that these rarity grades don't always correlate with what you can or cannot find in the market. He used a question mark by the rarity number "if date is questioned on the reference specimen, or if the coin date is suspect, or if the coin is suspect."

It's difficult to discern the year on your coin. On Alexandrian coins the date is written as L (for year) and one or more letters. Year 14 would b L I Δ; year 18 L I H; year 21 L K A.

The L is clear in the upper left field of your coin's reverse and I think the second letter is to the right and slightly higher than the L. Since common things occur commonly, it's probably a K-- but it sure looks like it could be an I. I'm not seeing the lower left field K that you mentioned and placement of the K in that position would be atypical. The third letter is probably that lump on the lower right field-- it could be a Δ or an A-- or a Λ, but the latter doesn't correlate with any known dates for the type.

Emmett's catalog number for this type is 832 ("Demeter standing facing, head left, with corn + poppies + torch"). In his cross reference section, the year 14 coin corresponds to Dattari's 1331, year 18 to Milne's 1390, and year 21 to Milne's 1512.

The obverse legends can help with determination of the year. It's hard to make out much of your coin's legend but I think I see an O towards the end, making this coin a year 21 issue rather than year 14. In case it helps you, here are the full obverse legends for the three years of issue:

AVTKAITPAIAΔPIACEB (year 14)

AVTKAICTPAIANAΔPIANOCCEB (year 18)

AVTKAICTPAAΔPIANOCCEB (year 21)

In short, it's probably year 21 but it could be year 14.

 

probably a cistophoric tetradrachm. funny money, worth of 4 drachm but weighted bit more than 3. Since roman tets were 12, 13 grams, their cistophorics were around 10grams.
Hadrian was last one that had minted those.

Here's one of his, but not from egypt. RIC475a. weight 10.22g

 

Welcome Hadrian Lover.

here is mine.
EGYPT, Alexandria. Hadrian Tetradrachm 136-37 AD Demeter
Reference.
Emmett 832.21 Köln 1209 Dattari 1335

Obv. AYT KAIC TPA AΔPIANOC CEB AVT? or AYT?
laureate head right.

Rev. L KA=year 21=(136/137).
Demeter standing left, holding grain-ears and poppies with her right hand and a long torch in left.

13.39 gr
21-24 mm.

best Regards,

Hadrian Idiot Eric

 

Huh, I guess that is a K in the lower left field on the OP's coin .

 

That's what I thought I saw.

 

Thank you those that chimed in. I now have it properly labeled so I can better appreciate it. Random addition of a question. Why would mine be larger in diameter however less in weight?

My mind is blown it's from year 21.

 

It is from the regnal year 21 i.e. the 21st year od the reign of Hadrian and thus struck in A.D. 136/137.

 

That makes more sense. Thanks again to all those involved.

 

Yeah. I guess I should have clarified that, huh?

 

Maybe it's thin?
That's why I thought this might be a cistophoric tetradrachm.
In fact, some were stacked on coins with low relief, and a good strike could pretty much clear out the previous image.
Here's one stacked on a mark antony coin, noticed it also underweight?
http://vilmarnumismatics.com/produc...very-interesting-good-vf-roman-imperial-coin/

Generations of roman issued these funny money, Nerva, Trajan, Claudius.. Hadrian was the last one known to have done that.

Problem with such theory is that cistophoric tetradrachms weren't struck by every mint in the empire, and the egypt mint was not known to had produced those.
That type of demeter figure, on other hand, was only produced by the egypt mint

Essentially, problem here is that even an underweight normal tet should be close to 12g. 10.2 is towards the low end of even cistophoric tets...

 

Thank you but you just spoke over my level of understanding.

 

It's my understanding that many coins produced in the provinces did not have the strictest of controls, thus a wider variation of weights and measurements. Also, allowances must be made for the wear of the coin. How much of the original coin remains? In the case of the OP coin, it would appear the years and elements may have done a pretty good job of wearing away this coin.

 

Sweet => that's a very cool addition, kSigSteve (congrats, coin-brother)

... oh, I like your name