Beware of rainbow toning

I remember the last fours years of teletrade and i certainly dont remember all being toned. I would think coins so easily being toned the coin doctors could keep the party going.

 

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I Google this "red book" and with the overwhelming number of hits I can conclude there has been a publication, yearly, for almost a century now, where the retail value of coins of the USA are found, by year, mm, and denomination.

Cannot find this other thing you can't find either. Would help if you just threw something relevant, a link to a table with some auction data, some old advertisement, something, from this well known, common knowledge thing that everyone who is ignorant, which at the moment in your eyes is every single person but doug, knows about. That's all. Something. Honestly, no chest puffing, no alpha male of the tribe. A commoner's request, requests of the bourgeois.

 

I used this thing called Google, perhaps you have heard of it. I searched for "teletrade" and came up with: http://www.stacksbowers.com/ happy to have saved you some work.

 

Also check https://www.cointalk.com/threads/is-teletrade-shutting-down.239505/

 

Sorry I didn't simplify and double state the part you missed. I think ANYONE has HEARD of teletrade. Duh. Really? The part you didn't pick up was the auction specifics that they have allegedly had. That no one can find. But I did think your attempt at being snarky was adorable. Real slick hyperlink slide in, I see what you were trying to do there. Fail.

 

Wow. You really just missed the whole meat and potatoes there didn't you. No one is debating does teletrade exist bud. Did you read the thread?

 

Just trying to give some help to someone I thought really needed it. The snarkiness was to match your own.

 

Yeah I have no clue what you are talking about. But as far as your comment relating to my post, yes sir, you completely misunderstood, or missed, or didn't process it. But I am confident if you keep trying you will comprehend it, eventually.

 

@GDJMSP - I think what happened was....you tried to use the "everyone knows it so to argue with me makes you ignorant" method and it kinda turned around and bit you. If it's common knowledge and everyone who doesn't know is ignorant why can no one find anything about it. Maybe not so common? Remember, first thing I said was I don't agree or disagree, I just don't think you are doing the forum any justice talking down to people, especially if you can't find any evidence of these common knowledge auction listings. No big deal. But why would someone in a position of "power" use it to beat up people just inquiring, or disagreeing for that matter. Isn't a forums purpose to be a stage for debate? Debate cleanly. That's all.

 

How convenient; you choose a defunct auction house with archives without images in many cases. And we are talking about high end, attractive toners that sell for premiums here and not overpriced dreck with toning that is either ugly and negative or toning that is neutral at best. And if I recall correctly, Teletrade's description/tags were complete garbage. Everything with dark steel colored toning was described as "rainbow toning." They would even have called the monstrosity that Kurt posted a "rainbow" toner.

 

Uh oh

 

Also, you all seem to have a different definition of "many" or "several" and it is all relative. If there were a 100,000,000 Morgans coined (I don't know the actual number), even 100,000 nicely toned pieces would put it in the 99th percentile. And I don't think there are that many high end/monster toners out there. And to be clear, I am talking about the very tip top toners and not every Morgan with a thin sliver of crescent toning.

 

So you were not a coin dealer, not a collector, but you continued to attend more shows than anyone else in the world until 2009? Are you a professional "tire kicker?"

Your contention is that because I don't attend coin shows, that I don't know what percentage of US coins are rainbow toned. You make this claim despite the fact that I have told you that I have scoured every major auction for over a decade. That means that you are claiming that the dealers on the bourse floor carry a much higher percentage of rainbow toned coins than are in the actual auctions. But most of the dealers have websites, and I can check them as well without attending the shows. So what you are saying is that the people hoarding all the rainbow toned coins are dealers who sell on the bourse floor but don't have websites. And guess what? I don't believe that either!

The fact is that rainbow toned coins are a very small percentage of the total number of coins available, even in the Morgan Dollar series. They are not common. If they were common, they wouldn't drive a premium. This is just another one of your lame attempts to impugn my credibility because I don't attend coin shows. But the fact is that instead of "kicking tires," I have actually been buying and selling rainbow toned coins for the last decade. I know the market, the availability, and prices of rainbow toned coins. I don't need to attend coin shows to learn what I already know.

I have never heard of any auction company that sold rainbow toned coins exclusively. I have never seen it, never heard it word of mouth, never read about it on the internet, and never read about it on a forum, or a chat room.

Omg, now you are claiming there were multiple auctions per week exlusively made of rainbow toned coins , and this went on for years. And despite the fact that I have been actively buying toned coins for over a decade, I never once found one of these auctions.

We finally get the reveal after all the dramatic lead in. Teletrade held weekly auctions on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. Now, would you like to tell me which of those auctions was exclusively for rainbow toned coins?

All of the major auction houses hold auctions comprised exclusively of toned coins? Which auction houses did this? Heritage has never done that. David Lawrence has never done it. I have never seen Bowers Merena or Stacks Bowers ever hold a rainbow toned only auction. If these auctions exist, then I want to see the links proving it. Furthermore, what are you defining as the beginning and height of toned coin popularity?

Typically Doug, you employ your "omniscient" tactic at the end of the debate when you are losing. This time, you are coming out strong claiming that these things are true, refuse to give proof, and call the rest of ignorant because the claims you are making are supposedly common knowledge. I have been posting stunning rainbow toned coins on this forum from the first day I joined. Are you really going to try to tell me that I don't understand the toned coin market and didn't know where to locate toned coins? Do you really think that it is believable that someone who spent as much time and money on toned coins as I have would be unaware of auctions that were exclusively for toned coins? You seriously need to stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

PLEASE ANSWER THE MONEY QUESTION IN RED!

 

I was going to hit all the points relative to your argument but I honestly thought a man crush would be the interpretation. You did well with the wording.

 

Yes the guy really believes he can say whatever he believes to be true and everyone must accept it or be ignorant. I honestly wish there were links in his arguments. At least that way I could learn something. I'm not so big on trusting people from the Internet, especially the guy who says "trust me I'm right".

 

I just checked E-Bay and there are 87,156 PCGS and 68,346 NGC graded US coins, so Vic's 150K was actually rounded down. I then simply typed in the word "rainbow" in the search bar. There are 801 PCGS & 863 NGC rainbow toned US coins on E-Bay right now. That means that there are 1,664 coins that are listed and described as rainbow toned out of 155,502. Assuming that none of the E-Bay sellers exaggerated the description/titles of their coins in order to get more viewers, that is a little over 1%, again, pretty close to Vic's math result. What I don't understand is why 1% is considered common by some members of this forum.

@Chiefbullsit, if there were thousands of RAINBOW toned coins at the last 3 ANA shows, how many total coins were at the shows? Based on your first post, it seems as though you are confusing TONED with RAINBOW TONED. This thread is about the latter, the coins that drive significant premiums in the market. Bkozak33 tried to explain this point to you. If you can get it, you will see that Doug is in fact, wrong!

 

Vic's math is just attractive toning. Less then 1% of eBay coins with a premium quality toning. Not the small subset of rainbow toned attractive coins. when you search for rainbow on eBay you have the same problem that bkozac mentioned which is that everyone and their mother list using words like rainow or toned to get hits even when the coin doesn't qualify. So my math says your true rainbow coins are much rarer then 1%.

 

This page was highly entertaining. I laughed out loud a few times. I believe (as is often the case) that there's a major misunderstanding of terms. Between people who collect high grade, naturally occurring (aka real, high quality) toned coins and people who don't collect them, who assume that anything that isn't blast white, falls in the "toned coin" category.
I see it clearly as two different things. It is perhaps why you have two sides to the argument that are so adamant that they are right. I don't know that apples to apples have been discussed for 32 pages now.

Anyone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong but when I went to the ANA show in 2011, I honestly don't recall seeing much for toned coins there. And I looked at thousands. There were cases full of gold. Just about anything anybody could be interested in. I have no memory of any toned coin that stood out to me there. I could have missed a booth or have forgotten, but I remember the event pretty well. I also do not see many nice toners available at regular shows either. Usually none. None like I currently own anyway. There is an exceptional segment of the market that is highly desirable and most of what is on ebay right now does not fall into that category.

 

Beauty of a thread. Let's keep it without my participation, I promise.

I'm really enjoying a lot of the comments from a lot of the guys here. Thank you for the info. Always loved toned coins, but, prefer them light on the rainbow. Back to catching up on the thread.

@-jeffB see if you can spot where CT's biggest problem lies.