65 Kennedy Questions

No - I don't really have 65 questions, but I do have a few about 1965 Kennedy Halves.

Is a SMS coin basically a proof? What's the difference between SMS and business strike? How would I tell a difference in a raw coin, and how do the TPG's justify whether a coin is SMS or business?

I was looking for a 1965 Kennedy Half graded in MS66, but all I found on eBay were SMS coins. Is the 1965 business strike hard to find graded?

Thanks!

 

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Special Mint Sets were issued from 1965-1967 in the absence of proof coin and regular mint set issues for those years.

Half-fast........

 

Ok, no one is jumping in here so I'll continue. Back in '65 there was a coin shortage, allegedly perpetrated by us evil coin collectors. In order to discourage collecting of coins back in this evil era, the mint produced coins with only the 1965 date and no mintmarks. They threw collectors a bone by producing the special mint set which is basically a mint set, only I think they polished the dies and blanks more.

 

Also too, I think the pressure of strike was supposedly higher in nature.

 

Thanks for your help green18!

So - I'm going to count SMS coins as proof. As you have explained it, these coins are more proof-like than they are business strike. Then why are they are graded more like a business strike (MS-score) instead of a proof (PF-score)?

Mintage info:
1965 - 65,879,366
1965 SMS - 2,360,000

Given the mintages, why am I having a hard time finding 1965 MS-66?

 

I think because regular business strike dies were employed.

 

ok - that makes sense. Must have been strange times in 65, 66, and 67.

 

I just found 8 of them on eBay no problem.

 

http://www.amazon.com/1965-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-MS66/dp/B00STPC4V6

 

green18 - thanks! But, that's the SMS coin. I want the 1965 business strike (non-SMS) in ms66.

Thanks jpcienkus - I must not know how to use eBay. =)

 

Oh, sorry, mistake on my part. I think that the reason why it's so difficult to find them in an high mint state is because not too many were saved in bank rolls and with the absence of mint sets for that year, very high grade example prove to be an enigma.

 

Thanks - that's what I'm finding out.

Maybe a full set of kennedy's in graded ms-66 is going to be harder than I thought to put together.

 

A little clarity here.

Yes, the SMS Coins of 1965 can be likened to "Proof" coins in that the dies and planchets received special treatment. The coins themselves were minted on higher tonnage presses and can often look like well struck business strike coins. In grades of MS66 and higher, they simply cannot be differentiated!

It has been my experience that TPG's often grade any true high grade business strike coin of the 1965 - 1967 years as SMS whether or not it actually is an SMS coin. Simply because you, me, they, or any TPG cannot really tell the difference.

Back in 2009, I had a 1966 Kennedy that I submitted which came back as an SMS MS66, I then sent it to James Wiles for attribution and the return letter stated that the DDO-034 1966 Kennedy Half Dollar was NOT an SMS coin but a Business Strike coin. That particular doubling was never found on an SMS Coin. The price differential is huge with the MS66 SMS Coin Price Guide Value being at $20 while the Business Strike value is currently at $750!

Be very careful in purchasing any "raw" 1965 Kennedy that claims to be MS66. ONLY purchase TPG Graded 1965 Business Strike coins ince the MS66 version of the Kennedy is going to really set you back in the money department.

 

Thanks Lee........I was just gonna @tag you for assistance.

 

Thank you 19Lyds - that's exactly the info I was after. I wondered how TPG's differentiated ... and I figured that sometimes they couldn't. You certainly proved that.

Who knew that the 2nd year Kennedy was so confusing?

 

The SMS is basically a business strike, that does not qualify for proof status. They are prepared dies, but not to the degree that normal proof coins are. They were available only in mint sets, so they get the designation SMS. Consider it an MS coin, with a special but not proof surface.

 

Thanks MorganDude! I completely understand what you're saying, but I'm not going to consider SMS coins as MS for my collection. SMS coins are basically a poor man's proof in my opinion. I only want to collect coins that were produced to be circulated.

 

That is fine, but understand that it was not intended as a circulation coin--it was taken out of the mint sets--no circulating 1965 Kennedy has that surface.

 

I think we are saying the same thing - I value A MS coin more than SMS. I do not collect proof coins.

 

My most recent upgrade--just purchased and part of the collection now, speaking of SMS. Note that the surfaces are not quite proof, but prooflike. There is a bit of cameo on the reverse, but not on the obverse.