are deep cameos specially made? or is a deep cameo just a really clean high grade coin that just happened to get a good clean strike and no circulation? I noticed in the franklin and kennedy halves on ebay, some deep cameos are available. I dont buy one yet, though, because they're considerably more expensive. seems to be the regular high grade proofs are selling really cheap, and now is the time to get a few high grade proofs.
I've wondered that too... I would like to see 3 of the same coin... Say, PF-67 PF-69 Cam PF-69 DCAM I'd like to see them all 3 side by side to examine and compare them....
In the earlier series like the Franklins, the cameos come from the earliest die strikes. As the die wears, the cameo effect is totally lost. Rick Tomaska has a very good reference book. Try a google search. Modern proofs are designed to be cameos....
A cameo, also known as frosting, is only present on some PROOF coins and very early strikes (deemed to be prooflike). Many proof coins do not have a cameo. Some circulations coins do have cameos, and sometimes all coins of a series were struck with one (1689&1690 halfcrowns)
I usually run into people at coin shows that are supposed to know a lot about one thing or another. One person that is a dealer at every show I've gone to has a web site full of all kinds of Cameo coins and appears to know all about them. Try bugging him about them on JMSCoins Not sure if it's a .com, .net, .something or other but has lots of them and appears to know all about them.
Many will say the official year when all proof coins would be deep cameo is circa 1972. PCGS no longer lists Cameo on their price list after that ( at least for Kennedy's. ) I used the word mistake for ones previous to that ( tongue in cheek ) and caught a lot of flack. Heritage has in auction descriptions definitely stated the SMS 65 through 67 coins are mistakes in deep cameo as the mint was trying to discourage coin collecting. Anything DC 72 or back is a joy to behold but many if not most are off the market.
Why would the mint want to discourage coin collecting? They don't now of course, but why would they ever have wanted to? That's just extra money for them. You'd think they always would have encouraged it... the US Postal Service very quickly realized if people bought stamps that they'll never use it would be a big boost to their budget.
Absolutely, possitively and most assuridily true. If nothing else is true with our government, they are in business to make money and selling coins and stamps appears to work. I stopped in my local post office to find out when the new higher amount of postage goes into effect. Bought some normal looking stamps and the lady asked me if I wanted to buy thier new POSTAL KEY CHAINS. Not sure if it's like that by you but the inside of my post office looks like a Walmart store. Boxes, bags, envelopes, sheets of stamps with just about anyone on Earth on them, posters and now POSTAL KEY CHAINS. I saw on TV that they will soon be coming out with stamps with Rock Stars on them. Our mint makes Dollar coins that no one wants for usage but they convince every one that you need to save all the ones they produce. And if not for profit, why would the Mint make those things called commemoratives, proofs, uncirc sets, stuff to put them in and probably soon they will be making bills with every movie star on them. Need an Elvis $20 bill?
Check my reply on this post. http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=23202 . Keep in mind that stamps are made of paper and have no intrinsic value, pure profit for the post office. Coins depending on the denomination had an intrinsic value as late as 1981 and cents and nickels seem to be developing one again. Here is a quote from Heritage. 1965 50C SMS MS67 Ultra Cameo NGC. Ice-white devices confirm the Ultra Cameo designation for this high quality Special Mint Set example. The prominently mirrored fields appear to have been heavily basined and certainly resemble those of a proof, although the mint was trying to actively discourage collectors in 1965 and the SMS coins were allegedly a step down from actual proofs. The coin is brilliant throughout and the contrast between fields and devices is strong enough that it resembles the finish on later date proofs when the mint actually tried to produce proofs that look like this. In this case, it was accidental that such a piece was produced from new dies. This coin sold in January of this year for $2645.00 .
I personally don't believe that...if for no other reason than they were producing the sets. Sure, they didn't make proof or mint sets from 1965-67...but they still made those SMS sets. If they really wanted to discourage collecting...wouldn't they just not make sets all together.
Or try here for a good explanation of the process and characteristics... http://www.coinworld.com/news/082106/BW_0821.asp
The Mint made Bicentennial coins, state quarters, silly looking nickels, dollar coins with women on them and now presidents. They produce commemoratives year after year in such abundance that they fill over 50 pages in the latest Red Book and these are coins not intended for circulation and for close to 100 yeasrs now. There has been tons of advertising about the necessity to collect the new educational dollar coins. If people would stop collecting coins, the Mint would have to start laying off personal due to lack of work. When does the government allow that. I predict the Mint will soon enough start producing square or triangle coins just to make sure they don't get spent.
1965-1967 saw a very large coin shortage in the U.S. (it was unstated that the lions share of this was silver which understandably saw a quick dissapearance) Coin production during 1965-1967 could not make up for the amount of silver that suddenly dissapeared. In early 1965 the mint director at the time blamed collectors for causing this shortage. In response all coins during this period were minted without mint mark to deter collectors. Also in response was the abandonment of the proof and uncirculated sets that were quite popular. Later in 1965 the mint attempted to kiss and make up by releasing the special mint sets. These were at best a very very poor proof substitute and were more like double struck circulating pieces. By 1967 the "shortage" was averted, and the world returned to normal.
The mintage figures are interesting as in declining. 1965 2,360,000 1966 2,261,583 1967 1,863,344 Point of interest; 12 or 20 or so 1964 SMS sets were minted. When found and certified by a major these 1964's go for very high dollars. Also, at least on the Kennedy, the coins most sought after & expensive for the real Gem Cameo examples are in the earlier years when production was greatest.
Yeah, and you watch, they'll probably put the dates and mottos on the rims of these! Uh oh...we're giving them ideas!
Hmm, did anyone at the time come to the more obvious collection that everyone was hoarding away silver, not just collectors? My parents and grandparents recall that just about everyone they knew was saving any silver coins away, in case they became valuable later. My parents still have their "silver stash" that they saved from that time. 1964 over 1 billion Jefferson nickels were minted from each Mint trying to make up for the shortage of dimes, qaurters, and half dollars. It wouldn't be until 1995 that mintage of nickels passed one billion again (again, for each Mint, not just the aggregate total). As I mentioned in another thread, this hoarding is also what killed the half dollar as a standard circulating coin... people kept hoarding the silver ones away and by the time they started minted them in clad, people had seven years to get used to not having a half dollar around, and they never would circulate widely again, except in and near casinos. My dad remembers before 1964 it was no more unusual to pay with, or receive change in, half dollars than it was to pay with or get pennies in change. Now there's people who weren't even born yet when the Kennedy halves were first minted that have never seen one or know that they are still minted. It always gets a reaction when I spend any... it's obvious many have never seen them before.
True, true, true. I also remember when I was a kid halves were common. Of course when I was a kid they were all Walking Liberties. No such thing yet as Roosevelt Dimes either. However, the reason most people in the USA have never seen these coins is most were not in this country until recently. However, show them a Peso. :smile :smile
Am reasonably sure the cashiers at the places where I spent these were native-born US citizens and they still haven't ever seen any, lol... Always gets a comment... some think they are a new coin, some think they're old coins. Rarely do I find anyone who is aware that they have been (and still are!) minted continuously from 1964 to the present. Working two years as a cashier at Sam's Club, a very high volume membership warehouse, I have only ever been paid with a half dollar once. In that same period of time have been paid in dollar coins about 10 times (Sacagaweas and SBAs) and with $2 bills about 5 times. Speaking of pesos, I used to actually find quite a bit of Mexican coins in US circulation. Not so much now; the bi-metallic coins they have minted since 1992 are very unlikely to get confused with US coinage.
