NGC-Altered Surface(s)=Bodybag

This isn't my coin. I saw this on FB with no answer and would like to understand what's going on with it for learning. All opinions welcome. Definitve answers wanted lol View attachment 1542054 View attachment 1542055

 

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The coin, according to the owner, did not come back with an altered date or mintmark notification so I'm assuming it is authentic, but if not I'd like clarity with that as well as if it could be a fake and that's why the bodybag. The impression I have so far is that a grade couldn't be assigned, such as VF details-altered surfaces because of whatever is on the surface, but I'm really guessing at the moment.

 

In my experience, on very rare occasions, a TPGS will return a coin as this when they cannot be 100% sure it is authentic. Your only options are to sell it, keep it, give it away, throw it away, or get another TPGS opinion. Coins as this cannot be authenticated by photos.

 

I posted a third picture below the large 2 showing a better picture of the portraits surface. This is what the OP had thought it was due to. If I were to get a close up of the date/mm and reverse initials would it help?

 

VDB seems to be ok, corrosion appears to be affecting the coin, date is fading but looks to be good. I'm in doubt of its authenticity. If there were more positive information, it might interest me. Personally, at this point I would pass.

 

And the "s"? Nothing wrong there, that a 5X held up to the screen wouldn't solve. A hard pass, but thanks.

 

The granularity of the surfaces points to some post-mint damage. It could be just environmental damage, and could be a genuine coin. But, if you had an altered coin and acid washed it to remove traces of counterfeit, you could leave a pretty convincing coin with these sorts of surfaces.

Everything is just sorta washed out from whatever... not enough to conclusively say fake, but not enough to positively identify genuine.

 

The coin wasn't for sale. The poster was wondering why it didn't get slabbed. It came back as altered surfaces from NGC and no other mention.

 

I just realized... the third picture in the OP reveals some incredibly intriguing micro-patterns. The picture doesn't show unless you click on it.

The surface of that coin is seriously whack.

 

Send it to ICG maybe they can authenticate that it is counterfeit and put it in one of their counterfeit slabs

 

Any thoughts on what caused that appearance? The pattern looks like gauze but I have no clue how that would get there.

I wondered if there was used a filler on the coin to hide marks. Makes me think of a cast and plaster, but I'm not implying thats what was done.im merely thinking out loud

 

I posted back on his Facebook thread after your recommendation and let him know I'd posted this here and passed on your recommendation. I was unaware they slabbed counterfeits and altered coins. That is a wonderful educational move.

 

Intent to deceive always leaves a trail.

 

IMO, they owe you a refund as they did not provide a service. Since problem coins are now slabbed, this one should have been slabbed, or returned C/F or no decision.

I just looked at the third image. I believe this is the type of coin that fits my "rare occasion" category. IMO, that coin is probably a counterfeit as it exhibits what I call the "spider web" pattern of crystallization. This pattern occurs on older counterfeits. Do not confuse this with the similar blocky crystallization found on genuine ancient coins.

NOW, this OP could be all based on hearsay. We really don't know what
NGC's opinion was.

 

Very interesting information. Thank you, Insider.

Edit: as I mentioned earlier, this isn't my coin. I simply wanted to learn from those more experienced than me. I did notify the owner of this thread and mentioned ICG.

If it were counterfeit, you would still slab it as such, correct?

 

One more question and I'll leave this alone. The N in united is known for being unique on these, and so is the blob in the first curve of the mintmark. Does it look like metal had been moved in these two cases on these coins?

 

Some very harsh abrasive or wire wheel. Someone thought it was a good idea to "polish it up". The MM looks destroyed so I wouldn't blame them for chickening out. For me that's the first diagnostic and if it's gone - it's almost impossible to confirm it as genuine.

 

Yes I know they do henning nickels.

 

If the coin is a counterfeit, as Insider suspects (and which seems reasonable), the TPGs still won't slab it (with a few notable exceptions, such as Henning and Omega).