Help ID 2 Originals

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by 7Calbrey, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Hello. Maybe it's the first time that I encounter such coins or figures. Bronze and tiny, they weigh respectively 2.55 g. and 1.55 g. Thanks for your assistance. Candle O.jpg Candle R.jpg Sit O.jpg Sit R.jpg
     
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  3. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    The first two coins look Byzantine (I'm no good to you there) and the second looks like two different reverses. Zeus enthroned and Victory (if Roman) or Nike (if Greek).
     
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  4. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I see what 'Pish' does.....two look Byzantine and two appear to be Greek and/or Roman...which are the obverse and reverse of which coin??? Four or three or two?? I assume the Zeus and Nike are two coins....but is the Byzantine also two or front and back???
     
  5. askea

    askea Active Member

    I believe the first two are a decanummium of Maurice Tiberius, Theopolis mint. No idea about the other two. They do look like two different coins though.
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The last coin is one of the two common types we call the Anonymous Pagan series struck at Antioch about 311 AD. It shows Jupiter and Victory.
    rx3740b02172lg.jpg
    This is the other common one.
    Anonymous Pagan Issue, AE4, Antioch mint, c.310 AD
    [​IMG]
    These Anonymouscoins show a pagan god on each side (two reverse types, if you please). They are often called 1/4 nummus pieces but their exact place in the scheme is not known. The obvious question is why they were issued. Numismatists of the 19th century assigned these coins to the Pagan Revival under Julian II (360-363 AD) but this is now realized to be incorrect and the coins are assigned to the time of the Great Persecution under Galerius and Maximinus II. Citizens at that time were required to perform a sacrifice to prove their piety to the state. Christians considered this act sacrilegious and refused preferring to suffer death or imprisonment. I see a distinct possibility that these coins served some role in that sacrifice. Perhaps the requirement was as simple as throwing a sacred coin of minimal value in the offering plate at a temple. Perhaps this is not a coin at all but a receipt of having complied with the requirement. This is a matter needing study. The obverse of our example shows Fortune (Tyche) of Antioch with swimmer (River Orontes) at her feet. This copies the bronze statue by Eutychides of Sicyon which was commissioned by Seleucus I when the city was founded. The reverse shows Apollo holding his lyre. The figure is a copy of the massive acrolithic statue of Apollo by Bryaxis that stood in the temple at Antioch. Ancient descriptions of these statues (both now lost) enable us to be certain of the identifications. The mintmark SMA expands to Sacra Moneta (Sacred Money) of Antioch. In the field is the additive numeral of officina 9 (5+4) as seen on our previous page. This use in itself suggests the error of the attribution to Julian since coins of his period used theta for officina 9. The timing of the confusion on the date of these coins led to them being omitted from RIC. When Volume VI was written, many people attributed them to Julian II who is in Volume VIII but when Volume VIII came out, they had been 'moved' to the Volume VI period so they are not in RIC. Pity, they are very interesting coins.
     
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  7. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Thanks dougsmit, never seen them before, I am going to have to get one.
     
  8. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Terrific answer Doug-----I don't recall seeing that type before...'Anonymous' and showing two 'Pagan' reverses, front and back---That's pretty cool!!!
     
  9. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Here's a similar coin. I received it yesterday but didn't clean it yet at all. The officina is Z . It's likely that these anonymous coins were struck under Emperor Maximinus II. He was secretly approving the striking of "Pagan" coins. It's true that under the Constantinian Dynasty Christianism was widespread in the Roman Empire, but many people , officials and even Co-Emperors were still devoted to the old mythological religions, namely the Greek and Roman ones. Remember how many Emperors did Constantine defeated and ordered to death, just because they had turned against the Christians? Just to name Licinius and maybe Maxentius who always struck coins with goddesses Roma and Nike in temples. Maximinus II approved the striking of the following or above coins but dared not show his belief , by fear of Constantine. TycApo O.jpg ThycApo R.jpg
     
  10. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I love the coin, cleaned up a bit or not......thinking of the 'issues' that prevailed back then, and the reluctance of many to abandon the old gods, always makes the coins speak volumes through all these centuries..
     
  11. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    A couple of mine:
    Maximinus_II_5_opt.JPG
    Pagan Commemorative_opt.jpg
     
  12. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    I feel like I am the only one who hasn't got one :(
     
  13. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I have three, but my computer crashed a couple of weeks ago. I'm still trying to reconstruct my coin images, and I'm missing one of them.

    These tiny coins come along once in a while and it seems to usually run in groups. Funny how that seems to work.
     
  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I suppose I should mention that there are a few other rare types which are catalogued in the book by David Vagi but were left out of RIC and ERIC. I don't know if they made the new Millennium Sear volume or not. Does anyone have it?

    rx3700bb0667.jpg
    Other than the two commons, the only one I have is the above Alexandria mint coin DEO SANCTO SERAPIDI / DEO SANCTO NILO B ALE. Nice ones are not cheap.
     
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  15. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I found my missing image:
    Maximinus_II_8.jpg
     
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  16. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    PISH, I share your misery...I don't have any either....I haven't even noticed any for bid or sale yet on the usual sites. But now i have to have at least one!!

    Bing, let us know if another 'group' comes along.
     
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  17. askea

    askea Active Member

    There are several examples on VCoins. A bit pricey though.
     
  18. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Thanks, 'askea'-----Yeah, the two I've seen so far are a little pricey but my budget reloads in less than a week so......
     
  19. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    The least expensive of the the three was $3 while the most expensive was only $20. Be patient. There will be more to come along at affordable prices.
     
  20. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Forum has a couple for sale at $33: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORVM-Antio...246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a1a91efe and http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORVM-Antio...708?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a242b91c

    and another from UAE for $60: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZURQIEH-MK3...486?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce67dd31e

    There are others on Ebay, but, like I said, they seem to come along often in groups. So if these are not in the condition you want, just wait. Something will be around soon enough.
     
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