NGC Conservation (Kennedy), questions and thoughts on a coin and possible candidate?

Ok here is the scoop, I ran across something that I wanted but the price was too much. I requested a different photo. The seller did not agree to my price, but did attempt to get more photos so at that point I accepted the counter offer...

You see I collect Kennedy's and have found some really nice ones in the wild so to speak. SMS's being my favorite. I have a 65 that is DCAM on the obverse....




I just can not get it in a picture. So I wanted to get a slabbed DCAM from PCGS as the toughest grader (est), and to get one marked MS instead of SP or whatever they do now. I have CAMS, but can not afford DCAM's. I found a better picture of my coin online so I bought this:



Oh did this one open my eyes. I grabbed all of my wild found Kennedy's including the 64's. Yes I have some DCAMs now for sure. Actually, the CAMEO on my AVATAR is as good as this one..

So that being said, the way I afforded one to actually hold in hand was to get a low grade one...PR65 is not that good. I wonder if the 'stain' caused the grade.

If sent to conservation and regrade, could it get a PR66? If so, then now I have a high dollar one....I know it is $50 to grade or whatever but that just might make it worth it.

If I had a coin to send off to Conservation, this and my Avatar (AH CAM) would make it worth it for sure IF I was to sell but I am not.

I want to know your thoughts, am I nuts? If the stain is gone does it go up a point?

 

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I think you should leave it just in the holder where it is. Being a Kennedy collector as well as Morgans (as most people know), I think that the coin (the 1965) is graded appropriately, and conservation isn't going to change the grade in terms of surface preservation. It is a nice coin, so don't mess with it--leave it right where it belongs.

 

Grading from photos is difficult and imprecise. Grading proofs (and SMS coins) from photos is more difficult due to the more subtle nature of the defects. Grading proofs in grades 65 and higher from photos is further complicated by the fact that the defects are now quite small and hard to photograph.

Those are all easier than telling if conserving away a stain (which I agree is distracting) will result in a coin that would grade higher than what is already hard to ascertain from the picture. I would take this to James Sego at the next show he attends and get his opinion.

 

All I can say is that DCAM's are more prevalent on 67 SMS coins and comparing a 67 to a 65 or a 64 might be a fools chase.

PCGS is really tough on the DCAM designation and often defaults to CAM if there is any doubt. ,Primarily for the grade guarantee.

Your 1965, you state "I have a 65 that is DCAM on the obverse...." but you have not mentioned the reverse which is probably key to getting the DCAM designation. If its not a DCAM on the reverse, then the coin will default to CAM.

Also, try to remember that not ALL DCAM's are of equal quality. In other words, I have some DCAM's where I wonder how they ever got DCAM compared to some of my CAM's which I thought were surely DCAM............

As for the "stain", it might not have been present when the coin was initially graded. If that's the case, then a 66 is out of the question. Typically, the numeric grade is influenced by the number of hairlines present on the coin.

 

I understand what your saying and that is probably what I will end up doing, however, the reason I bought it is so I could have one in hand to use to compare Cameo effect with my 'wild' coins. On that fact alone this was a GREAT purchase. It is a nice coin but I think the stain could have caused the grade. I have very large pictures, very well done that I could post if one wants to see it...they are very large but very zoom able. Let me know..

Well I will be going to a coin show locally but would not really trust anyone for that type of decision. Then again, I might take it with me....never thought of that. Then again, I am there to buy (and work this time).

True that but, they sure as heck are not common. I have a wild one that is MUCH better......the 65's not so much....

Understood, and that is why I bought it, plus the MS designation tells me it was slabbed long ago when things were lets just say tighter...

Well I am not sure, it is Cameo, but I think not on the DCAM. Here it is..

I so much agree with you, I have the same issue with some of my slabs.

Well that is what I need to learn. Any place were an 'Idiots guide to grading High end Kennedy's' is at?

 

So what's to conserve? The coin is nice enough in it's present state. I'd leave it be......

 

Just to compare--here is my '65 SMS Kennedy. I don't think that the one you posted is even close to the grade of this one--look at the surfaces, and not any toning, or color. This is a very solid 67 and this is why I think your coin is appropriately graded. I would not conserve, resubmit, or do anything else with the coin. If this one isn't DCAM, which I don't think it is, then yours isn't for sure. Compare, and look at a pretty high grade coin.

 

I am not talking grade.....just frost....looking at your obverse, I think my 65 beats it inhand...but pictures are so deceptive...Sending one in for conservation was about the PCGS 1967..not the 65. I just used my PCGS DCAM to compare with...

Here yours...

and another shot of mine..




Of course my camera skills suck but still...this is a blast white frosted monster on the obverse.....

 

PS I have a 67 grade also....mine has more eye appeal if that means anything..

It just isnt CAM....my raw one is..

 

I mean my CAMEO one has more appeal..

 

Well tomorrow is the coin show...I sure hope they have some Kennedy's and now IKE's.

 

Good luck at the coin show! I hope you will be able to examine loads of Kennedy half dollars.

The last big show I was able to attend was the ANA 2010 Boston show. It was great to be able to meet James Wiles there but Kennedy half dollars were far and few in-between. There were only two dealers that had books with Kennedy halves in 2 X 2s and Wizard’s had a bunch of proof sets to look at for Kennedy half dollars. Jim Sego had a few Kennedys graded by PCGS; between those for dealers, I was able to pick up 9 Kennedy varieties.

I had planned on spending four days at the show but most of the dealer had just modern bullion coins. Thank god for the subway system in Boston because after the second day I decided to check the phone book and find address to the local coin shops in Boston and spent the next day and a half visiting them. I picked up another 12 Kennedy varieties this way (always better to have a plan B option in place).

Good luck with your hunt.

 

Ah this is a VERY small show, maybe 25 booths...only real one I have been to. This will make three years in a row, except this year I am helping my LCS owner, the one with all the pennies. His health is somewhat better now but there is a good chance this will be his last one...he needs to liquidate things. I can understand it is hard to let go sometimes.....Either way, the wife and I will help and that way he can mingle with his friends. Of course I will be looking around at times as I have saved some powder for this.....

 

There is no comparison between the two coins. If you think so, you're deluding yourself.

 

To you, perhaps. Not to me.

 

I was on business in Boston a few months ago, and had about 4 hours to kill downtown. I walked from shop to shop using Google maps and found a ton of killer coins, and after talking to some shopowners for awhile, got some insane deals. One dealer turned out to be a really laid back guy, and emails me some choice items he picks up here and there and gives me first dibs. Nice guy.

 

That Rocks!!!

Uh ok to each his own I guess but I can not even see cameo in yours. Whiting yes but Cameo no...

Then again Cameo pictures are an art that I just do not have so no worries..

Coin Show haul - will be broke a long time...The highlight is the QDO 1967's and the NO FG 66, that has been a long time on the list..

NOTE: NOT ONE SMS DCAM HALF..
** Someone had a 64DCAM PR70 in a brown and black holder. I have looked at it for 3 years now and it is in NO way a DCAM and odds are not a PR70, not PR69....he seems to think it is legit and wants $7k....I guess I will look at it next year also...

1970 D Kennedy
1953 Balboa (UNC)
1999 W George Washington $5 Gold
1999 $10 Platinum 1/10 Oz Eagle
1974 MS63 IKE
1974 D MS63 IKE
1976 MS64 Type 1 IKE
1964 PR67 Kennedy Proof
1965 SMS SMS Set
1965 SMS SMS Set
1970 UNC SET (( SMALL DATE 1 Cent))
1964 UNC Set
1964 PR Proof Set
1964 PR Proof Set
1964 PR Proof Set
1961 PR Proof Set Sealed
1963 PR Proof Set Sealed
1963 PR Proof Set Sealed
1966 MS65 SMS Kennedy FS-901 NoFG
1967 MS60 SMS Kennedy FS-101 DDO-006
1966 MS64 SMS DDO-013 FS-103
1965 MS64 SMS Kennedy DDO/DDR
1967 SP65 SMS Kennedy QDO FS-101
1966 SP65 SMS Kennedy DDO-017
1966 MS66 SMS Cameo Nickel
1977S PF63CAM IKE - DDO-001

 

Somebody tell this kid, who thinks he's an expert, about my high grade JFK collection-- he's now on my ignore list.

 

Ownership always goes up one or two points .......