Possible Fake RR

I picked up this coin a while back, so it's not exactly new. However, once I had it in hand, I think I found a die match on ForgeryNetwork.com. I contacted the seller and told him my concerns, and that I wished to discuss it with him. But before I knew it, he issued a refund to my Pay Pal account with no indication he wants the coin returned. This makes me feel all the more that I am probably correct about it's authenticity. What is scary is that even in hand the coin looks and feels right. The weight and measurements are right. The flan is right with no seam. Here is the coin in question:


L JULIUS BURSIO
AR Denarius
OBV: Winged head of Genius or Apollo Vejovis right, control-mark (mask of Silenos) & trident behind
REV: Victory in quadriga right holding wreath, L IVLI BVRSIO in ex.
Struck at Rome, 85 BC
3.89g, 18mm
Syd 728, Cr352/1a

And here is the link to the coins on Forgery Network:
http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?mode=6Q/zOXMHeZ0=&id=laPN0iNCLis=

Your opinions are appreciated.

 

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The only thing I can say is that the details look soft in the wrong sort of way, that is, not wear-soft, but casting-soft.

 

I see what you mean from the images, but in hand it doesn't look soft. It's much sharper than the images I took.

 

jw, i've looked at this image many times, the fake ones look like yours, but the coin looks good to me, i agree with Big John, does look a little soft. could go either way. i know this doesn't help...

 

There seems to be no question-- it is a cast fake. Its centering, flaws, and everything else matches the known fakes in the link you posted.

 

I agree TIF, and what makes it more telling is the immediate refund without any return instructions. I guess I have to be much more careful, but in my defense, the seller's image didn't look like the coin listed in Forgery Network. BTW, I just listed it in Forum's Fake Reports.

 

man, that a pretty well done fake. after i went and looked at several, i guess it does look a bit soft. but spot on for weight. that's very cool your seller was so quick with the refund though.

 

Cool, or he knew he sold a fake and didn't want it reported. He still has not given me instructions for returning the coin Chris. Makes ya wonder.

 

*rats* => too bad Bing ... it is never cool seeing that fakes are floating around out there in coin-land!!

 

wi

 

with a little skill you can easily fake old coin.
with all modern tools I think it's easiest then falsify euro coin

Picture how they make rome coins.




with all fake coins value losing real coins

 

Funny, Tif comes out and says its a fake, all the guys beat around the bush, no candy coating there!!!

 

A question on this as I am not a collector of ancients but could the softness be attributed to having been in water a long time before found. Like glass gets smoothed in the ocean? And not necessarily the ocean but perhaps a stream or river.

 

It's not really beating around the bush. I prefer to say what I see and let the owner decide for himself, rather than make a sudden judgment. In many cases, it's impossible to say for certain from a pic. And most of the coins on forgerynetwork have been cast from molds made from authentic coins, so the authentic coins are out there somewhere. Just because a certain coin is a die match to a forgery does not necessarily make that coin a forgery as well.

Also, I have been wrong in the past - nobody's perfect. And occasionally I've angered some posters by telling them their coin was fake, even though it was clearly and obviously fake. Nobody like to hear that their coin is a fake. So now I simply say what I think I see and leave it at that.

 

Well, considering that Bing named this thread "Possible Fake RR", it really wasn't too much of a stretch that his poor ol' coin might be a fake, right? (yah, it seems like Bing merely wanted somebody to verify his concerns)

=> TIF merely pulled the trigger and put poor Old Yeller out of its misery



... ummm, where Old Yeller is the coin, not Bing

 

Looks just like the one from forgery network to me too. I get what you're saying about the details looking pretty sharp and would think any softness either from wear or photography. Would've fooled me! I'd be interested to see more of the edges though, just for education... what's visible on the obverse picture looks pretty smooth.

 

The edge all the way around looks like what you see in the image of the obverse.

Really, I had no question in my mind that this coin was/is a fake. First the match in Forgery Network and Forum's Fake coins (which I just pulled up today). But most telling was the way the seller responded. If he/she thought the coin to be real or even possibly real, wouldn't you expect some discussion or a request to return the coin? I suppose I had two reasons for posting this thread. One, hoping against hope that it might could possibly be authentic. And second, just to show how good a fake can be. We all have to be vigilant when buying, especially on Ebay, but also on trusted sites as well.

 

Ah, this wasn't an eBay purchase?
And yes it would certainly make me more wary of the seller if he basically had no reaction to your pointing out it was a fake other than to refund you immediately.

 

It was an Ebay purchase and from a seller I had bought at least one other coin. But not again.

 

Darn, im seriously considering getting into roman republics, but this scares me as it would have fooled me. How would you advise a newb getting started in this area, with ebay being the main source of coins?