Does anyone have any idea if the difference in the Philly and Denver no edges will be grade-able by the major grading services? I mean, I understand nobody knows for sure - but what is the likelyhood that this will be discernable? Will it be something that even gets listed in the redbook. I'm sure the smooth edge Washington is something that will - but a Philly one and a Denver one - Seems odd to go by just the edge. If you take a penny like the 1922 no D ... You can clearly tell because by logic the mint says they didn't make any 1922 plains. The Washington Dollar situation seems different to me in that actual proof would be hard to discern unless you could somehow match a die characteristic or something else - which again I think will be impossible because this is an error that is caused by skipping a coin (or many) - not any individual die or machine. I'm just curious as to what others think. Thanks for any and all info. Maybe I should have started a poll instead of a thread? Esky
The only way to discern the difference is if the rolls or bags from the mints have the P and D designations on them and you send the roll or bag to one of the grading services to be slabbed or, at least, authenticated... just a thought... Clinker
Fred Weingberg (sp?) has said that he thinks that there is a way to tell the D's from the P's....but he isn't sure if the grading companies will use it as it isn't "set in stone". There is said to be more copper showing on the rim of the one mint... Speedy
My Denver godless - After going through about ten "D" rolls (I live in Denver, and that's the only thing available), I found this slightly broad struck, godless dollar. I've been waiting to send it in for grading, hoping that a way to prove the mint would be found, as the numbers I've heard, are putting the D's being found at about 1 to every 3500 P's. Of course that could change as more rolls are opened. It does have the solid brass color edge as noted on http://coins.about.com/ but it seems doubtfull, that's going to be enough. There's also quite a bit of doubling but I have yet to find any others from that batch with the same die characteristics. With no real way to prove the mint, it looks like this coin is destined to join the other more common P's. ...bummer. I don't want to look a gifthorse in the mouth, it's still a kewl find...but darn! I Guess I could send it in for grading anyway, and if a way to determin the mint is established later on I can just re submit it then.
tfoth - That's a really nice double!! - Your D smooth is nice as well and from what I've read I can tell it's a D!! lol ... I have a P smooth ... I'm wondering though - in different posts an edge can be smoothed without much weight being shaved from the coin. Could be a nightmare for D grading also. I will say this shouldn't be the case with the P mint smooths. That bar of copper like that would be tough to smooth out without someone who was good really noticing it. Should be interesting to see how this plays out. It is kind of cool in way to have our own little error scenario. I've been collecting since I was a kid and although I've found many 1995 DDOs ... and the Wisc. Leaf error was far too scarce to get my hands on - this is kind of cool error to have around. I just hope it doesn't get ruined by fakes and/or hair splitting. I probably will hold off buying a D - but I'm going to start buying D mint rolls and see what happens. Open them up put them in circulation Esky
Matching a missing inscription to a mint will require forensics. If you read nothing else that I write here, read this. If you find a Denver with a missing edge, go back where you got it and buy the whole box and save them. Then seek out groups who like to match coins up to the dies that manufactured them (like varieties and what not). Invariably, unless your coin was the first one struck with a new die, it will have marks transferred from the die. It could take some serious time, but in some cases, you could be able to find another coin in the box that can be matched up to yours. I have a philly with the missing edge inscription and lucky me, it has a die clash. thanks to n_sandler4 for discovering his and starting a thread or I might have missed mine. I am now going through several boxes to try and find another with the same die clash. If I find one, I figured it would be a nice addition to my collection to be able to prove which mint mine came from, even if it is a philly. I imagine a Denver with a matched coin would fetch a small fortune as those probably got out of the mint the same way a blank planchet does. I have a theory about the philly coins and it postulates that they in fact did go through the edge inscription step, meaning that number in circulation is dependent on how long the equipment ran unnoticed (I believe the rate is about 750 coins per minute. An hour would be a reasonable guess without any further input from the mint putting the total in circulation at around 45000) There are a number of philly ones with a starburst pattern on them which I believe is due to a contaminate on the coin being spun off during the edge inscription step, then the contaminated surfaces not accepting a proper antioxidant coating. While this would be enough to reasonably assume that the coin came from philly, it's not enough to prove/disprove it as it could happen at the Denver mint also.
While I'm thinking about it, if the Denver coin truely did skip the edge inscription step, it probably would be next to impossible to find a matched coin as it was separated from the rest of the coins it was stamped with, therefore would be packaged no where near it's brothers. Sorry for making such a suggestion.
Good luck to you both in your search. I don't know the quantity, but they ARE out there. I made the dumb mistake of cashing in 5 out of my 10 rolls after I was done searching them, not thinking that I might need them later on for comparison. Trust me when I say that I studied the remaining 5 rolls in desperation until my eyes started to bleed... Makes me wonder about "groups who like to match coins up to the dies " Must be something like people who are into the whole pain / S&M thing
