So I sent in about 15 1847 large cents into ngc to be graded and attributed. I had them looked at and attributed by a very qualified person before I sent them off. Of the fifteen all but one was as expected. However I had one that was not attributed. I called ngc and asked them why it did not receive its N number and they mentioned that the dies were too worn. I need someone to help me out on this as the coin received a grade of au 58. The guy that I used was able to determine it was a N 38 and from what I understand from the large cent bible most of the attribution is determined from the placement of the date in relation to liberty's head and the denticles and than you look at the die details to confirm and determine if it's an early, mid or late state die state. Help me out here so I understand this better.
Essentially, you are correct. Date location relative to liberty and the dentils is the most important factor when attributing the late dates. Since the late dates were made from a master hub, many other attribution markers that were used in the middle and early dates are not available. Late date attribution can be challenging for coins that are less that XF condition, but it can be done. For me, it takes a microscope and some patience to spot the hub defects, spurs, lapping marks, and any other attribution points that can be extremely difficult to spot. The process can be fun for nerds like me. However, many find the process tedious and frustrating.
I am one of those when it comes to the later date large cents. I have found using my newcomb book along with grellman to be helpful. But mostly I do not try if something obvious is not sticking out.
I've been using the grellman book. It's been a learning experience for sure. Not sure what I'm going to do with this coin, maybe send it back in.
If all you want is an attributuon, sent it to grellman, he grades and attributes for a dollar. In my experience the TPGs are not very accurate with large cent attribution, especially late dates.
47n16 and n38 are the same variety, just different die states. At one time they were thought to be two different dies. I believe in the case of 47n16 and 38, the n16 was heavily lapped, to the point that the date position is a little different.
What about N 9. My one coin was attributed some time ago and had that on the flip ngc I think called it a N 24. Is it the EAC that determines if a attribution gets delisted or combined into another.
In regard to delisting, it's not necessarily the EAC as a whole, but a few of the experts members in the club that do extensive research and look at many thousands of coins that make these determinations. They also have read all of the data that past EAC'ers have compiled (which is extensive) and factor that in. The few that have written books have done an incredible amount of work in their particular area, and I doubt make a lot of money from their efforts. Grellman is as good as they come (or has ever been), when it comes to late dates, and I use his book often. If you're having issues nailing down any late date varieties, shoot me some good pictures (or upload them in this thread) and between me and a few other EAC'ers on here, we should be able to confirm your findings or provide you with information on what you have.
I second what aubade said, but wanted to add. There are peoe who collect the delisted coins, I guess not that surpising as eac folks will collect anything if its copper
N-24, N-9, and N-25 are all from the same pair of dies. Originally Newcomb had listed them as different varieties but as enough examples were seen it was determined they were all from the same die pair. The N-24 was the early die stage, N-9 was the middle die stage, and N-25 was the late die stage, So N-9 and N-25 were delisted. They determine they are stages of the same die by finding "betweeners", pieces that show the die markers of both say N-24 and N-9 but the N-24 markers are fading out and maybe some are completely gone. Then you find "betweeners" that show markers of both N-9 and N-25 etc. See enough examples and you can demonstrate a continuous gradual change from N-24 through N-9 ending in N-25. So N-9 and 25 get dropped and all you have is early middle and late stages of N-24.
