notacoinguy is learning thanks to you folks here.sitting here middle of night and crunching numbers educating myself.Question-is it possible for you guys to tell me with some degree of accuracy what grade two particular Wayne miller dollar book coins would probably be?1882 and 1884. thank you notacoinguy
Hello, I assume you mean, can the folks here grade Morgan dollars. There are some very knowledgable folks here. Some of them have a lot of experience with Morgan dollars. I would say that if you can provide them with good enough pictures, and detailed written descriptions, they would be able to give you very close estimates of your coins' grades.
Jody- well yes, but i mean THE two specific particular actual coins that the photos are of in the miller book.1882 and 1884.As i am not a collector,I have not seen the book , but i understood it has detailed photos and info that may allow an experienced person to logically estimate a grade.In addition to estimating the MS grade,are there comments in the book or can one estimate from the photo if they would be PL or DM? Thank you all. notacoinguy National Dealer-did you have a chance to look these up ? i'm curious because my Uncle seems to remember that one or both were maybe "cameo".Probably what the guy told him!!!
There is really no way to judge the value of a particular raw coin held in an album, without seeing a quality photo or seeing the coin in person. Neither date is rare or very valuable. $30 to $40 in Uncirculated condition.
ND- #1- thought the miller book did show quality photographs. Also- i am silly maybe, but i understood that the miller book had some of the finest quality examples(at least at THAT time) and IF IF IF these coins were 66dmpl, uh, they would have wholesale value of like 15k total (based on Heritage value index thingee--thanks BTW) notacoinguy
There is no way to determine the value of a raw coin in an album. There are more than a few Miller books out on the open market. If by some off the wall chance the coins did grade at MS-66 DMPL there value is still near $4000 a piece. Now that is a "BIG IF". Certified coins are easier to value due to a large sightunseen market. Raw coins do not fall so easily into a value. They must be seen. One problem with coins in an album is the toning that is caused by the cardboard and any fingerprints, along with any scratches to the rim. Good quality pics can be used as a guideline, but the coin must be seen to be accurately valued.
ND- well, ok .i thought i understood that a GOOD photo was sufficient to do a approx. grading,There there was info on the condition of the PARTICULR coin, and i understood(may be mistaken) that these were the ONLY 1882 and 1884 in ANY miller book.Please specifically correct me ND or anyone familiar with these books. also- can we make sure i'm reading and understanding the Heritage value index? under 1882 dmpl ms66 it sez- 14k-17,5k. under 1884 dmpl ms66 it sez 4.1-5k. I assume the lower price is the wholesale and the upper price is the auction "averages" Thats how i understood the fine print about the H value index. Please correct me anyone if i'm beiong goofy here Thank you guys all again-specially you steve. Im a learnin. notacoinguy
There are hundreds of thousands of each date mentioned. There is no way of telling what condition your coins are without seeing them. The grades range from good through MS-68 for those years. As far as how Heritage gets its numbers I am not 100% sure. I assume it is based off of past auctions, but the info I have is their index value which shows $4000.00
Am i stupid or am i not sufficienly explaining??I understood it was possible to get Some idea of grade from a detailed photo.I understood that the Miller book has those, plus some description of the condition of the PARTICULAR coin in that photo.I hold the two coins that were used FOR THE PHOTOS for the years 1882 and 1884.Is anyone able and willing to scan these and post them? Regarding the heritage thing- i will cut and paste the two lines of text for 1882 DM and 1884 DM- 1882 S$1, DM 130-170 135-175 160-205 435-560 3,300-4,000 14,000-17,500 1884 S$1, DM 85-110 85-110 115-150 525-625 1,800-2,150 4,100-5,000 the last figures (14-17.5 an 4.1-5k) are the ms66. How are you figuring $4K? im confused. notacoinguy
It is possible to get a rough idea of a grade from a photo. By that, I mean rough. Grades of MS-63 and higher are based in most part by eye appeal. This cannot be captured in a photo. Heritage has a value index on the dealers networks, and this is one tool that we dealers use when offering bid and ask prices on certain coins. The index posted on this dealers network is $4000. That does not mean that this is the set in stone price that will be offered for a coin graded MS-66 DMPL. Now that your coins are raw, they are going to be judged by whomever looks at them. Their opinion is the only one that matters at the time of offering a purchase price. That is why many collectors choose to have their coins certified. That way it leaves much of the OPINIONS out of the process. I wish that I could make this easier for you, but that is all I can offer without seeing the coins in person.
So, is my whats called value index that i was able to access and view once i signed up last night DIFFERENT than the heritage value index you refer to? Cause those lines are copied and pasted!!!!!!!!!????????????? All the other coins add up roughly in the range we spoke of. Also, aren't the photos in Miller blown up like 300% and thats not good enough ?? Slap me if i'm stoopid. Imaconfuzednotacoinguy
I don't use the Heritage site, so it is hard for me to know if they use the same system that they use on the dealer network. I can only share what I know. As far the Miller Album photo's if you can post them, or email them to me so that I can see them, I can't help much. You also have to understand that my opinion on grade may very well be different than anyone elses. That is just the nature of the grading game. Without actually seeing the coin in person I can only offer a rough idea based on any bag marks, contact marks, wear, or weak strike. There is no way to be very accurate when dealing with photos. Also, you have to take into consideration that NO ONE is going to buy the coins at an auction value.
notacoinguy - It's not that you are stupid - it's that you are ignorant of how the system works. Yes - the prices you see for the Heritage value index are averages for the most part. Heritage also assigns value for the amount of demand for a given coin. But there are different dealer networks that Heritage does participate in with different values. That is because one is retail - one is wholesale. And the Heritage index is also comprised almost completely of slabbed coins. Very few raw coins bring such prices. Instead of looking at the index - look at examples of raw coins for the date & mint. You will get a more accurate idea of value. But regardless of what price index or guide is used - that does not mean that the coin you have would sell for that much, especially if your coin is raw. And it doesn't matter what book it has been in. Now if I had a copy of the book in question I would be happy to provide you my opinion of the grade. But grades based on pictures are not always accurate even for those who are good at it. And I'm quite good at it. This is because a picture can be manipulated to display or hide whatever you want it to do. And nobody but a fool would ever offer to purchase a multi-thousand dollar raw coin based soley on a picture. They would insist on seeing the coin.
Yes i understand about the "auction value" comment.I will start a new thread requesting posting of the miller pages. Thank you sir. notacoinguy
I understand what you're saying and was aware of much of it.BTW- i did get a recent gray and blue sheets today so i will be looking at thoise numbers tonight in regard to the graded coins in the collection.I do not expect anyone to buy a coin solely based on a photo. Nevertheless,I do not think the photos in the miller book were re-touched or doctored, and i am simply hoping to get SOME idea of grade so that i dont have to offer it blindly to potential bidders,I have read posts on this board of the apparent fact that some of you guys have the experience to be able to grade off of good quality photos.I understand the Miller photos are such. Hence, all i'm lookin for is some idea of grade.Just some preliminary idea.I understand it won't be a Gospel or take to the bank grade,(i hope if someone is NOT sufficienly experienced, they wont be giving me a SWAG either though) but it should give me SOME idea should'nt it?? notacoinguy
ND sez- "Grades of MS-63 and higher are based in most part by eye appeal. This cannot be captured in a photo." So i guess i'm stuck cause i really don't have time to PCGS the coin before my prospective dealers view the coins.Any suggestion as to how i could have SOME idea before i offer them for visual? Hate to do it totally blindly. notacoinguy
There really isn't much more you can do than to trust the person looking at the coins. If you don't trust them, don't sell to them. From our conversations outside of the forum, you have my opinion. Sorry I cannot be of more help than that.
Nd is right - when push comes to shove - you either sell the coin or you don't. And the guy making the offer - well he's gonna make his offer based on his opinion if he's an honest man. Now let's assume for a minute he is an honest man. And he says he thinks the coin grades MS64 so he offers $XXXX. But based on a picture - I told you the coin looked MS66. And the difference between the price of an MS64 and an MS66 is $XXXXX. Now what are ya gonna do ? Do you see the problem ? I'm ( or anybody else ) trying to grade the coin based on a picture. While the guy making the offer has the coin in his hand ? Who is more likely to be correct ? So do you refuse the offer or except it - that's the question. But whether I look at the pics and offer my opinion or not - the guy buying the coin is going to offer the same regardless. My opinion won't matter to him. And for that matter - the opinion of NGC or PCGS won't matter either. Because anybody who buys a coin that is worth $XXXX dollars - only buys it based on their own opinion - not what it says on a slab. I know this seems like a tough position for you. But it's the position you're in and nothing is going to change that. You either have to trust the people making the offer - or find somebody else you do trust to be there and act as your advisor. But either way - you have to trust somebody. Sorry - but that's the honest to God best I can do.
Okay Gents- yes i can see that having an estimated grade may not help me and in fact could hurt.Good scenario.I did not think of that type of complication. I think i have a way of asking questions that makes me appear to be very naive.I think i have a way better handle on this than it sounds- i just have a different way or angle of looking at some of these things than you guys. ND- i am taking most of your advice. I will let you guys know how it's coming along. Probably will have more questions knowing me. Thank you, notacoinguy
