You wanted to, I did..Buyer Beware...Wash edge

OK I know everyone has been paying attention to the Washington no edge lettering coins, and I've read in numerous posts how easy it would be to fake.So...I decieded to see how easy it really is. Here is the result. WOW, it is extremely easy to make this error. EXTREMELY!! Once I had everything set up it took approx 3 minutes to remove all the edge lettering. If you have the correct tools this thing can be mass produced very easily! I took pics of the whole process with the intention of posting them here, but have decieded not to so nobody gets the wrong idea! I have included before and after tho. It's a little more complex than a buffing wheel, the metal is actually quite hard, but with the correct tools, it 's rather easy. TOO EASY! Anyway the main reason I'm posting this is to warn anyone out there who might be ready to drop a $100+ on one of these off eBay that you better be real sure of what your buying. Know your seller!

PLEASE NOTE: I did this ONLY as an experiment and have absolultly no intention of making anymore or selling them or anything like that. For all our education only.

You'll notice the weight and od both dropped, but not dramatically. If I wanted to get real nasty I could probably smack it between 2 boards and get the dimension back to normal or even a little larger, just like the real ones. Plus a few knicks in the edge would also be good idea.

Just a warning...Buyer beware

Mattman

 

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wow..very kewl!

 

Thanks for the demo. You can bet you are most likely not the first one to think of this. This is a fraud we can count on showing up on auction.

 

Sad, but true. Thanks for the heads up Matt.

Phoenix

 

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I don't think I could detect the diameter discrepancy with my analog calipers, and I know that my +/-.01g digi-scale wouldn't detect the weight difference! Time for some tool upgrades (if I were going to collect the DeadPrezes )

 

Am I seeing a copper core on the altered coin? I see a different color, maybe that would work as a tip off that this coin was machined?

 

That's what I thought too. Yes you can see the copper. But...if you go to coneca's site you will see where all the philly ones show a core (?????) and the denvers don't. Maybe someone else has already been fooled?

http://conecaonline.org/

(I'm not sure how to make a link, so you'll have to copy and paste)

Mattman

 

Nevermind I guess it automatically makes a link. Cool.

 

It looks like the weight difference is significant enough to discriminate a fake from a real one, but I'm a little surprised at how little difference in diameter change you saw. I would have thought the inscription was deeper.

It sounds like the best advice is to

1. Only buy ones you can physically inspect first, and
2. Only buy ones that can be removed from the case to wiegh or measure diameter.


Official Numbers

8.1g +/- 0.3g
1.043in +/- 0.003in

 

Thanks for warning us. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

 

Matt.
Thanks for the info good job thats one collector helping another.

Bruce.

 

I feel the same way. I'd never be able to tell the difference as I've never even opened my rolls to study the coin and have yet to hold one. Im glad that someone would sacrifice one of these in this manner to show that someone out there could scam alot of people very easily. Id never buy one of these "errors" anyway, seems like they're way too common on Ebay. Strangely, one seller seems to have an awful lot of them for sale at once.

 

I tried to find one with a weak inscription, but they were all about the same. I was able to remove almost all the lettering rather quickly, But the PL from plurbis was kinda stubborn

 

For ethics sake, please stamp or engrave something on the face to indicate it's not a real error. Just because OP isn't going to sell it, doesn't mean a kid receiving this in his change won't think it's real. I'd hate to see someone unknowingly get accused of making these. That's an image you just can't shake.

 

Mattman

Way to go! you the man

:secret:

 

Washington Dollars Slabbed by NGC

12345

 

We don't make fun of people at CoinTalk.

Based on the minimal change in size noted by Mattman I consider it very possible if the work has been carefully done, without leaving evidence of abrasion on the edge.

That's a tricky question. The reputable top tier TPGs, including NGC, are generally pretty good at making good on their mistakes, but once a coin altered in that manner is tucked away in its plastic tomb, how could anyone tell that it was a fake without breaking it out? And, once broken out, how could the owner prove that it had been slabbed?

I'm not sure what you mean by "official" literature, but IMHO there is no possible way for any price guide to be accurate by the time someone obtains it, bearing in mind the time lag between the publisher's determination of a value, and the user's obtaining of the guide. The problem is particularly severe with annual books and their publication lead times. The only valid price guide is a potential buyer/seller's analysis of recent completed auctions, giving due consideration to the fact that on internet venues, unlike professional well advertised live auctions, unsophisticated and ignorant buyers frequently bid more than true value.

BTW, to CoinTalk Overman.

 

It's about time somebody proved this to us! Hey, do you think you can make a few of these for me, I can use the money.

 

This goes back to a comment I made in another thread when I first held one in my hand. IMO: I think it is going to be very common for any circulated coins to lose their inscription over a short amount of time (that's assuming these ever really get circulated). If these are used in vending machines, forget it. The inscription just isn't deep enough. Look at the reeding on a quarter and look how fast that gets worn down. This is one of those details that everyone is going to look back at and say this should have been done differently. To me, it's like the dates on the buffalo nickles and some other early 1900's coins - only worse.

BTW; I see the copper on my normal examples, I think it is just more noticeable without the edge inscription. Anyone that took one right out of a roll could probably confirm this.

 

Hello. I am not a serious collector, occasionally I like to check in to this most informative forum because I do like coins. I've been watching this missing edge lettering issue with the new dollar, and for some reason I do not have a very good feeling about this being such a great collectable. Not like a rare double strike, or even the new dollars with one blank side, it seems like the money being paid for these coins on ebay and elsewhere is because of hype. They are being advertised as "rare" and I see them available all over the place. Rare to me is maybe a dozen or so, not the amounts I'm seeing just on ebay alone, and who knows how many more are out there? Could somebody explaing why this coin without the edge lettering is so desireable, and not just a defective coin? And what is going on at the mint that quality control is letting this get through in such great numbers?