Goldfinger's Gold Vault

The sticker rate for gem Saints is only 5-10%. A large reason for rejection are marks going across the rays.

If you ask, they will usually tell you why a coin was rejected. From what I can tell, the 1927 has a good shot. The other, I can't really tell from the pics.

 

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Thanks, I think both have a few marks across the obverse Sun rays, but I'll try and get more closeups of the 1924 so you can tell me if it's got a chance or if just the 1927 should be submitted.

If I do submit I'll probably do both -- just a few more bucks, right ? -- but I'd like to at least ascertain the odds for each before I submit.

I'll get closeups of whichever pics in the 1st post doesn't blow-up.

 

Nice coins! I've been thinking about purchasing one for a while, but I kept holding back because almost all the ones I see have contact marks all over that make them pretty unattractive (in my opinion). Those two that you posted are really nice though

 

Thanks, but I'm a bit perplexed....I think I have contact marks (bag scuffs) on both coins. If not, they'd each probably be MS-66 or even MS-67.

You want to avoid WEAR on the high points but marks per se aren't apparently a problem. I've had a few experts/TPG graders say the coin(s) looked nice, even though I thought a few nicks on the rays and bag marks are easily seen.

I guess that the NUMBER of contact marks and nicks that a coin can have INCREASES as you go down from MS-70 and MS-69. I didn't count them on my coin(s) but I must have a dozen or more on each face. That prevents MS-66 or higher ratings, but OTOH only 2-3 would probably take a coin from MS-68 to MS-67.

I would expect more leeway with larger nicks/scuffs/bag marks as you go lower into the low-60's. AU and below you probably need gashes/gouges and/or dents/rim damage and/or easily seen wear on the coins high points.

I could be wrong...but if a Saint has great luster/shine....and no major gashes or rim problems....even if it has alot of bag marks, it can easily get MS-65 or even MS-66 ratings. If I'm wrong, someone correct me but as I have learned -- surprisingly at first -- bag marks are NOT a killer. Sometimes, it seems a dozen bag marks is better than a single dent or gouge.

 

Sometimes, a large hit or gash could be considered damage.

Grading is more than just counting marks. Luster quality counts greatly. Strike, color, and eye-appeal have an influence also.

For me when it comes to Saints, I avoid pieces with noticable hits across the knees and chests and coins with "rubby" obverses.

 

Gotcha....yes, the more it stands out when you first see the coin for the first 15 seconds, the more it is a demerit.

You see something after staring at the coin for 2 minutes, that's usually much much more minor.

I think both of mine have good luster, even I can see it. I notice on some years the coins aren't as 'shiny' regardless of the MS grade.

Yeah, first thing I learned was to look at the 'high points' for wear.

 

An SS Central America $50 Quintuple Eagle re-strike.

There was tons of publicity about these coins when they were released in 2001. The 'Ship Of Gold' went down in 1857 and led to the Panic of 1857 (under a gold standard, rises or drops in the supply of gold led to expansions or recessions in the economy).

What I have here is actual bullion that was melted down and restruck in the image of the actual 1857 Liberty Double Eagles. This is a 'Quintiple Eagle' with a face value of $50 signifying that it has about 2.5 oz. of gold (2.5 x $20 = $50 ), compared to the normal approx. 1 ounce in a traditional Double Eagle

In late-2001/early-2002, the hype surrounding these coins was intense as some of you may recall. This wasn't a hyped up hoard like the Saddle River Hoard or Wells Fargo Saints, this was an actual historical ship that went down when trans-ocean journeys were still very perilous. The gold was recovered in the 1990's and after legal battles, went on sale.

But the premiums were astronomical for actual coins, including Liberty DEs, given the hype and publicity (documentaries on cable TV, etc.). At the time gold was selling for about $300 an ounce and yet many 1 oz. coins were selling for 10-20x their gold content, depending on the specific coin, mintage, and MS grade.

The restrikes also sold at a big premium. Even though it was NOT an actual coin on the SS Central America, the gold ingots used to make these restrikes were on the ship. So with 2.5 oz of gold, you had about $750 in gold bullion. The cost ? $5,000 to get one !!!

Needless to say, except for maybe the premium pieces that sold for 5 or 6 or 7-figures, virtually everybody who bought these coins new or for a few years afterwards is way under water. Even with gold going up 6-fold to $1,800/oz., very few transactions took place more than initial purchase prices or maybe 10% or so above.

I got mine a few years ago and paid about 11% premium to spot gold. Considering my local dealer charges about a 6% premium and I have some 1857 gold and a nice story to go with it and a 2.5 ounce coin, I think I did OK.

But let this be a lesson to any newbies reading this: ALWAYS ask yourself why you are paying a big premium to the underling bullion content. Hype wears off, both with stocks and coins. Someone else's loss was my gain, and with only an 11% premium to worry about, basically, I have a coin that is going to track bullion. And since I am happy with it and have no intention to sell, for me, it was a good deal.

If you had told the original buyers of the $50 restrike that gold would go up 6-fold in a decade, I think most would think their coins would have been worth at least $15,000 -- if not closer to $25,000 or more.

Caveat Emptor !!

 

Never heard of that coin, but very cool!

 

Again, it's just a restrike -- a modern recreation -- but they made it bigger with 2.5 oz. of gold vs. the approx. 1 oz. in the Liberty Double Eagles.

You can see them on Ebay, but they rarely get takers near the $5,000 asking price.

 

Here is mine

 

Nice !! Try and take a picture of the reverse. What camera did you use ? I have been placing my coins on a little night table....light from above helps illuminate, then I can put the camera down on the table to stabilize the camera to make the picture very clear.

 

I made it with my phone...
Here is the eagle side

 

Nice coin...can see the luster and shine, congrats !!

 

My 1913 San Francisco beauty ty

 

Grade ?

 

Guess

 

Reverse

 

It looks like MS-63 to 65, I'll say 64 and split the difference.

 

Thanks for playing goldfinger.
I will try to shot better pics next Monday.
So you can try again;-)

 

Yeah, they need to be clearer because I can't see small imperfections, marks, etc.....make sure the anti-shake feature is on...use a table to place the phone on to stabilize it, it made mine alot clearer.