Nerva Fouree/Mule Denarius

I took a fancy to this coin because of the iridescence and I didn't read the legends before I bid. The obverse reads IMP NERVA CAES AVG P M TR P II COS III P P but the reverse Pax (?) CIS II and seems to have come from a Trajan reverse. The obverse is crisp whilst the obverse seems pretty crude.

It arrived this morning and under the scope the iridescence is lovely. I doubt that I will be able to clean it without damaging the rainbow so will probably leave it as it is.

I would love to know the story behind the creation of this coin.

 

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I'm glad someone else is interested in fourée mules. I would also love to know the story behind these coins. Were dies stolen and combined in random ways? Most of the dies used to mint these coins look official in style, rather than barbarous. Is it possible they were officially but clandestinely produced? So many questions, so few answers.

Here is one from my collection that combines types of Titus and Domitian...

Titus(?)/Domitian
Fourée Denarius, 19.5mm, 2.85g, 5h, Unknown mint: 82 or after.
Obv.: [T CAES]AR IMP VESPASIAN; Laureate head right.
Rev.: TR POT IMP II COS VIII DES VIIII PP; Fortuna standing left, holding rudder and cornucopia.
Reference: Obverse possibly RIC II 225 (p. 40), reverse RIC II 32 (p. 157).
Notes: an impossible obverse/reverse combination in the official issues.

 

I have a few fourees, but, really, I'm no big fan of them. But, every coin needs loving as Stevex6 is fond of saying.

 

I do like your coin John. I don't actively pursue fourees, but I don't object to them. I do like the idea of people smuggling out the dies and then putting together a front and back regardless of what the dies are. Presumably a workman from the mint would not make such a mistake.

 

Very cool fouree Pp,i have a few of these, i think its a interesting tale, so many different thoughts on why they were made.

 

Well, one collects them for their intrigue rather than their aesthetics, because most of them sure ain't purdy. I recently read an article in AJN by Paul Keyser called Greco-Roman Alchemy and Coins of Imitation Silver. He analyzes 17 imitation silver coins of various eras and describes the different ways they were produced.

Did you know there were three different (known) plating methods? Ag foil soldered to flan, Ag foil fused to flan, and Ag filings fused to flan. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of imitation silver. Ancient metallurgists were far more sophisticated than we may give them credit for.

 

Thanks Eng. With the reverse coming from Trajan, presumably the Nerva obverse had been abandoned (from use) after he had died, possibly little used and so still crisp.

John, I would have liked to read that article, sounds interesting.

 

It's in this volume, and ANE is selling it for $3 plus shipping! Lots of other interesting articles as well.

 

Thanks for that John.

 

Excellent toning on that piece Pish.

 

Thank you Aidan, I wish I could reveal more of it but am worried about damaging it and losing what is there.

 

A soak in distilled water might help loosen the dirt, which could then be gently brushed, or pried with a toothpick, but I wouldn't go any further.

 

that's a solid one pish, i dig it. the portrait and pretty dran good and the obverse is well centered. a good fouree is also on my to get list.

 

I have an educational site on ancient imitations, including fourrees:

http://esty.ancients.info/imit/

and here is another page:

http://augustusmath.hypermart.net/Imitation.html

Here is a fourree of a rare type of Augustus:


AEGYPTO CAPTA
Crocodile right.
Copper core very evident.

 

Thats cool.

 

I love the coin, PishPash. That 'rainbow' patina really does it for me.

 

Thank you TC
@ Valentinian - I have seen your site before, but not seen the pages on imitations, very informative. Thank you.

 

My fourree coverage is spread over several pages starting here:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/fourree.html
Nerva did not make the article:


Very, very few fourree dies are close enough to official that I believe they were stolen. I suspect the bad combinations was one way a fourree maker could recognize his coins and not accept them back in trade.

IMHO the Campbell book on fourrees listed on my page above is must reading for anyone with interest in the subject.
http://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/anc..._ex_bruce_r_brace_library/438243/Default.aspx

 

Thanks, that is really good information.

 

P.P. - (I wish I had a coin with that patina.)
From reading this post I get the impression that 'fourees' (often) have a different reverse to the reverse of the 'original' issue coin.
I have a 'fouree' of Julia Domna and the Obv. And the Rev. seem to match the original issue coin (Ric. 587). Am I missing something? (I am new to this.)