Gold Value in A Counterfeit Double Eagle

I disagree. If the item is a fake US coin, I believe the law is clear and needs to be clear
they are subject to confiscation if not permanently marked. Now, if a TPG says either we can stamp them COPY or confiscate them, that would be a fair compromise. But to say a TPG should return unmared a fake is really circumventing the entire meaning of this law passed to protect collectors. WE ASKED to get this passed, so we should support it.

If you wish to collect counterfeits, don't asked to get them slabbed as authentic I guess.

 

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I don't collect counterfeit gold. I inherited it, and I want it confirmed 100% that it is counterfeit before I deface it and sell it for scrap. If I take one dealers opinion on it, he may be wrong and I could lose several hundred dollars or more on the deal if he is wrong. I just want ANACS to say, "yes, it is fake". Then I can scratch it up and sell for bullion. Seems like this law is making it hard for me just to get a professional opinion without risking losing $1,000 in gold if they decide to confiscate it.

 

No, they are subject to confiscation whether or not they are marked, actually, as "counterfeit material or apparatus" whether or not the law has been broken. However, there are direct provisions in the law to have them returned if they are confiscated if no laws were broken:

This would not be possible if they were illegal to own, and having a black collection for educational purposes is an established mitigating circumstance.

 

I have a black cabinet as well sir. My problem with allowing collectors use a black cabinet excuse for not marking fakes is its a hole big enough to drive a mack truck through. All of the dealers in fakes could simply keep saying they want them back for their black cabinets. If you truly want them for a black cabinet, why do you care if they are marked fake?

 

Wow, trying to read that lawyer lingo made my eyes cross...

Maybe if I submit it and notate that they are possible counterfeits on the submission form, that would show I am looking only for authentication and not to try to cheat anyone.

 

They could just return it as Questionable Authenticity and leave it at that instead of a blatant Counterfeit. That would take the pressure off of them to have to decide what to do and just send them back.

 

I must admit that's a new one on me. I have yet to find anyone who makes a "black cabinet excuse."

I honestly don't care if they're marked when I get them. My collection is thoroughly databased and documented for my own use and for the use of others, and my family is well aware of that legacy, so issues of posterity are well covered, and I've begun etching my unmarked counterfeits with their Black Cabinet ID numbers.

If someone's dealing in modern counterfeits and replicas, the issue is clear. There's no reason for them not to be marked. Virtually all of what I collect (and subsequently remove from circulation for good) however, are pieces that have already passed as genuine, not pieces that are purchased "direct from China."

However, I must admit that a little part of me would die if I were forced to mar any of the classic, contemporary counterfeits (CCBHDs, Henning Nickels, 1900 Micro-O Morgans, Type 2 and 3 1804 silver dollars, etc.). Those have become "genuine," valuable numismatic items of another stripe, and are a part of some of the odder chapters of our nation's history. There are even counterfeit Henning Nickels out there. Wrap your brain around that for a bit.

The law, as written, doesn't discriminate between moderns and contemporaries.

 

I hear you sir, I was just explaining why not forcing modern counterfeits to be marked could be a slippery slope. Something like a Henning nickel could be slabbed I believe.

 

I would just go to a dealer that you know and trust to determine if they are genuine or not. If they are not, just punch "copy" on the coin then sell them for their gold content. There doesn't seem to be any attempt to defraud here, so I believe it is acting in the spirit of the law and could actually take a fake coin or two off the streets.

Nice to see you again @SteveCaruso, it's been a while.

 

Indeed! Good to "see" you too, as it were.

 

I'm going to draw a distinction here. In the U.S., it's a legal impossibility to own a counterfeit coin. You can only possess it. No matter how you came into possession, you can not establish legal title and you have no property rights. Insurance won't reimburse you for its loss, for example.