Gold Value in A Counterfeit Double Eagle

I took my gold type set that I inherited from my grandfather recently to my LCS. The dealer is a contributor to the annual Redbook, so he knows his stuff. He looked over each one with his loupe and said my 1898 Double Eagle is fake, my $1 Type 2 is fake, and my $5 Indian Head is fake. He said that many of the fake gold coins from the 70's were made with real gold, and sometimes at slightly higher purity.

I have wanted a riding mower for years and a bagger to suck all my leaves, which are still on the ground. I have considered selling the coin to him as counterfeit currency gold and using the proceeds to get my mower. He currently keeps a small stash of counterfeits he will only sell to people he knows won't recirculate them, but wants the bullion.

How much could I realistically expect to get for the gold content out of these? How much for the $20, $5, and $1?

 

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I wouldn't trust someone that says it's fake and then tries to buy it.

 

He didnt offer to buy it at all. I asked if he would buy it from me. I told him I would probably deface it first. I watched his reaction to see if he would wince at that comment, but he said it was fine.

 

Could we get some pictures of these coins to not only see for ourselves (Not that I don't trust your guy) but also to learn about fake gold bullion?

 

I like this idea.

 

How do I get the gold value out of them then? I can't melt them down myself ? Should I be face them so much that they wouldn't be considered a counterfeit US coin?

 

I posted some pictures on this board earlier last year. I couldn't get good enough pictures of the smaller ones for the members to confirm counterfeit but they did confirm the double eagle. Will have to find the link and post it.

 

hey dont sell them hold on to them send them to grade/ certified , so you can have a professional graders opinion

 

I have an answer for you, move quickly, as in this week before the laws can effectively be implemented. Deal in cash, and let someone with more experience in this area (your dealer) deal with the problem.

You have 3 coins to unload, all of which are non-intentional counterfeits, meanwhile your dealer already has some of these and knows how to move them responsibly.

Let him deal with that, take the cash before you wait too long and are faced with a legal issue versus some faux moral issue.

Responsible folks such as yourself and your dealer have been dealing with these coins responsibly for years, nothing changed this week but another law added to our already cumbersome lists (and lists, and lists, ............) of laws.

Not to mention the law is dealing with people who are intentionally trying to rip people off, but just like anything else, they never leave room for the good guys caught up in being taken by shady dealers to right themselves. Your welcome, you are now a criminal.

Edit to add, we've been a country for little over 200 years now. You would think like everything else in our lives and progression and evolution that keeps getting more simple and easier, that laws would follow suit. Wrong, we now have more laws on the books that at any time previous in our history. Seriously we should be streamlined to about 10-15 major laws and a caveat saying leave everyone else the heck alone.

 

Ok I think the original point of my post was missed. What I am asking is how much gold value do these coins have in them? With people's experience in selling gold bullion to dealers, what percentage should i reasonably expect to get for the weight in gold that each coin has? Let's just assume they have the same purity as a standard US issued coin.

 

Say 75%-90% of gold value is what I would reasonably expect.

 

I would be comfortable at 80%-85% myself. Anything more I would consider a bonus.

 

Any generalizations about people offering "Cash for Gold" should be treated with great suspicion, including any in this post.

Let's start with the basics. In the U.S., is not illegal per se to be in possession of counterfeit coins, but they are subject to seizure by the Federal Government. Such seizure is unlikely unless you call attention to them by, say, showing them at a post office or bank, but 18 USC 492 allows "proper officers" to "request" you to surrender possession and failing to comply is a crime. For gold coins, Federal regulations allow you to petition for recovery of the gold value, but SecTreas "retains complete discretion" to grant or deny such a petition.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/part-101

Assuming the coins are not genuine and you try to sell them, you may wish to mark them first with a COPY stamp to avoid running afoul of the regulations of the Hobby Protection Act or otherwise slag or deface them. I explicitly offer no opinion whether you are required to do so or not. Whatever your choice, anyone buying for gold value will want to test the material for purity rather than making assumptions. Here you face some choices. Depending on the business and the amount of material, a buyer may just use a "touchstone" test or may require a formal assay. For a sale price based on a touchstone, you can expect less than that based on an assay because the buyer is taking on more risk.

Personally, unless I was in a hurry for cash, I'd work with a local jeweler I trust rather than a storefront. If you're a known customer they may submit it to a smelter or a company such as Kitco for nominal fee or even as a courtesy. Kitco publishes it's price schedule here; assay fees, postage and insurance will come out of your pocket, of course.

https://online.kitco.com/refining/gold-silver.html

 

So maybe the best way to solve this problem is to send them to ANACS when they have a special and let them determine the fake ones? That way it takes the buyer out of the equation until it's confirmed. Would that work?

 

I was reading on ANACS website today and it said that if they receive a counterfeit coin in a submission, it is their "legal obligation and duty" to confiscate it and turn it over to the Secret Service. Have you ever heard of this being done? I just want authentication so that I know how to handle them for future reference.

 

Aye neither the Hobby Protection Act nor the extension in the Collectible Coins Protection Act make owning counterfeits a crime. Otherwise, folks in my niche would be in trouble.

I believe that they are interpreting returning a counterfeit as offering "substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller." That is far too broad an interpretation with no basis to stand on.

Think of it this way: There is no obligation, nor duty, to steal fake coins from a collector.