Featured How to buy US coins that are good values, and not get victimized.

Where's the book? Lol just kidding

 

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Your the bomb man. I hope there are more like you here! I OWE YOU 1 well have to figure out how to repay

 

I think your view might be based on the series you collect. There is a lot of great information on the internet, it's a wonderful resource. However, some series, and some ways of collecting, require information only available in books, the specialized dealers, and if you can find them other advanced collectors.

I collect large cents, by variety and die state. Online auction catalogs will get you pretty far with some of this, but the standard reference books, sheldon, noyes, wright, grellman, breen, are untouched by anything on the internet. You may call these books expensive, around $100 a piece, but I have made more than that much money because of the information available only in these books. How many die states does a 52 n11 have, and which ones are common versus unique? Why was the 1825 a5 variety left out of wright, and how did wrights note lead to it's rediscovery 100+ years later? Seriously, find me this information on the internet.

To the point about coin shows. I am lucky, I live 45 minutes from baltimore. I have no idea how baltimore became the east coast coin mecca, but I'm not complaining. For me, to not go to this show, while living this close, would be stupid. I get to handle and look at world class coins till my eyes go blurry. I get to pick the brains of almost all the major copper dealers, guys who have been in the industry, specializing in the area I collect, for 30+ years. Guys who have personal collections to die for, but more importantly have built several world class collections which generated a profit for clients. Guys who have a huge network of other dealers and clients to draw on to find me the coin I want. Then, to top it off, I get to meet with a handful of other passionate early copper collectors, talk about coins, show off newps, and just shoot the breeze with.

With that said, I don't go to many other coin shows around me. The smaller shows generally don't have much material I'm interested in. I rarely find much, and most of the dealers are more general. But I did not find that out until I went as a new collector, and those same general dealers really pointed me in the right direction.

I can say, without any doubt, there is no way I would have become as knowledgeable a collector as I am without books, the internet, and a network of other passionate collectors/dealers.

One last point, really undervalued piece of collecting advice. Sell some coins periodically, the experience is valuable.

 

http://www.coinworld.com/numismatic...oronet-cent-from-ebay-may-confirm-long-.html#

http://www.coinworld.com/numismatic...large-cent-likely-worth-1-000-times-more.html

http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=25131

The first article goes pretty in depth. The last two are follow ups on the next one found.

 

I think at least 5 as you own an e.
You personally own or did own at least these two

Also of interest.

I had to quote you but I figure you kinda have to validate this info. You asked me to find the answers and I did for your first question. I think I get partial credit for question 2. Yes you might have been the one to post it but you asked for the Internet and it responded.

Not too shabby. I don't know the rarity of the die states for the n11 but I think I made some serious progress. I even learned about grellman and now know to find the last snipit you asked for I need to find a copy of

"Attribution Guide For United States Large Cents 1840-1857", 2nd edition by J.R. Grellman and Jules Reiver

I agree sometimes you really need the book, and I have not said anything negative about having or using books. I just don't think someone collecting culls or late date proof sets is going to get seriously burned after only a few purchases. Once you decide to delve into a particular series they become invaluable but for the basic novice I don't know.

As for shows I love going but think most of the certified coins are over market value. Of course they are on eBay as well.

 

I understand that some want a book and some don't need them and that's great. I would never suggest going to a book to find a coins value it is common knowledge that by the time a book hits the shelf it is already a year old, but the knowledge that I have found in the books I have (which all fit a series of coin I am working on) is priceless. When you find something on the internet is is written by one person. When you have a book it is written if not by more then one person then someone that has the same knowledge checks it for accuracy and to make sure nothing was left out. The books that are bought generally can be sold later for at least the same amount. So you actually don't loose.
I contend that the knowledge that can be had in a book is and will always be worth while. It will always be within reach. It isn't something that depends on power except by the mind to access. To me I will buy the book before the coin.

 

I don't disagree. I respect your input and approach to this topic. The details you provide are essential for an intermediate collector, ready to get serious and become an actual numismatist. That's what it sounds like you're dabbling in with your large cents, the field of real numismatics. Last I checked, I am still chatting in a topic, where the OP seems to be addressing actual beginners. Sounds like you spend big bucks and are out to make big bucks. That is your approach.

Agreed.

Perfect, sounds like you already know what you're doing, and what you wish to collect. Did you touch coin first, or book first, as far as the hobby is concerned?

Appreciate the advice, but, when I get something of quality, I just want to keep it. When I end up with a duplicate of any value, I usually try to pass it on, without a mark-up, to one of my many swap and trade partners, in several countries. Trust me, they appreciate it, pay me back tenfold with their efforts, help and generosity, when preparing or searching out items from around the globe, that I might be and usually am very interested in. That is what the hobby is about for me, and has been for over 33 years now. I have been giving away coin sets or unique coins to people who do not have access to that particular currency, for a very long time now. Can't really give them a book in a language they don't understand. This hobby is not about selling for me, I have found a more meaningful and engaging approach, a long time ago, and I do not wish to stray. I also do not want to resemble a modern day dealer/seller or look for profit. When I buy, I try to buy coins at a price, where my purchases don't drop in value within ten steps of or ten minutes after the purchase. I am not interested in the sellers market, haven't been yet. Happy to get what I paid or the going rate of Precious Metals, by passing on a coin to the good home of a friend, swap partner, or complete stranger.

Believe me, there is a whole world of coins out there, that is not preoccupied with TPGs, stickers, prices, profits, sales, registry sets and single points on the Sheldon Scale.

 

Well, I live in America, and I lived thru Super Storm Sandy and went 15 days without power.

During that time, I still read, all the time, during the day.

But, with hard copy books.

 

Having just read thru this entire thread, I can say:

That is 20 minutes of my like that I will never get back.

 

More than just new collectors.

 

Say what you want, but, I can assure you, that if you can decipher coin info in two or three of the right languages (countries that have a long history within this hobby), there is so much coin and banknote info to occupy one's time with, on the internet and for free, that one may never ever need to buy a book, ever. The available content is very diverse, and one's interest in it will vary based on one's area of collecting. I, for one, have so much coin info, coin catalogs, coin books, coin publishings at my fingertips, once again, all free, that I'm not sure if I will ever get to it all. Strongly doubt it.

More than enough floating around out there, to wet one's whistle...

https://books.google.ca/books?id=OKnWWhKbHpgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=polskie monety&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_aSqVLnSJcuVyATe1IGoAw&ved=0CLUBEOgBMBQ#v=onepage&q=polskie monety&f=false

Here are two I haven't read, but, I can see they each contain an English version as well, so, for anyone interested, download for free at bottom of page for English text, which starts half way through the book...

http://archeo.edu.pl/mennictwoceltyckie/

I'd say this link alone, beats popping into a thread only to say "BUY THE BOOK, THEN THE COIN" without any specifics or helpful advice. How much more generic can you get, especially if you claim to have experience and you're addressing beginners?

 

Yeah, I see it mentions a mid-level neophyte without a lot of experience.

Once again, thanks for your in-depth, single line contribution to yet another topic, probably one you didn't even bother reading the posts in.

 

Thanks for a great write up...for those interested in collecting the 5 Oz America the Beautiful Series, either MS or SP versions, from experience, I have learned that 25% of the strikes are blemish-free....50% are "normal", with "average" small contact marks, or as made issues, and, 25% are crappy...JUST BECAUSE a TPG LABEL says, say SP70, does not mean it is a perfect coin..I have had to return more than a few, where issues did not show in pics.
Another BIG issue is the so-called "Mercanti" Signature...for some odd reason, many PCGS coins with the Mercanti Signature will NOT show as a unique coin number, and, have a LOWER Value, as the coin number places it into the generic First Strike catagory...TRUE First Strike Mercanti coins are usually 25, 50, or even 100 dollars pricier in price guide, and, POPs are lower...bottom line..ALWAYS put certification number of coin in question into PCGS cert search box before buying, and, always ask seller if any blemishes on coin, so, if not true, you have the message in ebay system to back a refund, if an issue when in hand.
This is really only important for those trying to complete matching full sets...collector's, I know, could care less about labels, and, mostly buy raw for slots, displays, or, bullion investment.
Whether this is a clerical mistake on PCGS's part, or, some unknown hidden profit secret, I don't know, to be honest with you...getting MY Mercanti's properly relabeled has been a nightmare, with way too much time involved, and, crappy follow through, so, I'm DONE with any signature coins, and, back to the basics.
Calvin

 

Problem is, those articles were posted after the rediscovery. Prior to it's rediscovery, there was no way to know without the book, and

Perfect! The wright book made Mr. Deck a nice five figure profit on one coin. Now find me that information from before the news of the rediscovery... see the value here.

Current thoughts on the 52 n 11, there are no unique die states, only the reverse cud is a true cud. Obverse cuds are fold over laminations, or something else. See the problem with my previous internet information? Even knowledgeable people make mistakes online that go uncorrected.

I'm not picking on you here, I agree with a lot of what both of you are saying, but often the tone is imho overly dismissive of pretty standard, tried and true advice. Look, I have a bowl in my living room with $200 worth of junk us coins going back to the middle 1850s. It's there for guests to explore if they want, mostly kids, it's a discussion starter. I did not buy a book on Morgan dollars, or barber coinage but there both in the bowl.

With that said, grellman was pretty much my first purchase in large cents, along with a cheap copy of sheldon. And yes large cents was the first series I started collecting so I was a newbie collector. Some series are really uncollectable in any serious way without the reference. Try collecting connecticut coppers without miller, some say its too difficult even with miller... yes, you could buy a nice type piece from a reputable dealer or auction house and probably be fine, but to collect the series you need the book.

I guess the larger point here is, to go beyond a neophyte in a series you need the references, books, people, experience. If your fine filling some holes, buying inexpensive type pieces, and keeping your purchases inexpensive, like sub $2, im not sure how useful books are. While many collectors start there, not many stay, and once you move behind some basics you need the resources. The advice to beginners of buying the book before the coin is because they are beginners, and its safe advice for someone who wants to become more involved in the hobby.

 

All those links provide nice contextual information, but without reference books you can't truly collect them. You link to ancients, how in the world can you collect ancients without a reference for coin id, something like ERIC...

Yes, the internet has tons of great information, some of it very accurate and specialized. Beginners should use it, but as beginners they need to be cautious and avoid the common mistake that all this information available online can create, overconfidence.

 

I just picked it out, because it is bilingual. I have no problem with getting reference books, when required, but, don't tell me to buy the book, before the coin, please.

Well, I can tell you that my advice doesn't encourage a beginner to throw his money into unspecified books. If you support the advice of self proclaimed experts and numismatists who simply state "BUY THE BOOK, THEN THE COIN" in multiple threads and frequently have holes poked in their arguments (or we can call it their supposedly well read overconfidence), big enough to cause floods, then that is your right, I guess.

Advice like this is priceless, for everything else, there is MasterCard...Die polish lines?

 

Bottom line. You told me I couldn't answer your two questions online and I did answer one with quite nice details. Now you want me as a beginner or intermediate collector to be able to open these book and make a huge discovery on my own? Really? You asked for the story of the rediscovery and it's now posted for all to see.

I'm not going to be at dents level and few will. This thread is about giving advice to beginner or mid level collectors. It is certainly not about being a world expert on a topic and how to make numismatic history.

We agree about a lot. But some here keep insisting beginners read prior to starting to buy. I just feel small purchases with researching the market helps motivate someone beyond a book alone ever will. And if that $30 coin was only worth $10 you will create a very cautious new collector with his guard always up because he will always remember being "ripped off" on his first purchase. A great use of $20 in my book.

 

I'm ok making statements that are only 99% correct and not 100%. What percent of the time is the grid up and active for the average American? In the 14 years of living in vegas I've never had my power go out.

 

All the information you want on specific books has been answered elsewhere, search is your friend. Or better yet, ask what books to buy, ive done it in the ancients forum and got wonderful advice, specifically from medorman(sic), but others too.

Come asking for general advice, you get general responses. Want more, do the research or ask for more specific advice.

On the die polish thread, your nuts if you think Doug did not include valuable information. Those types of discussions often turn on definitions, and the coin in question is not normal, hence the three page discussion. You may not like his style, it's abrasive, but that thread had multiple people, Doug included, admitting they were stumped and working through it in a very informative manor. It ended cordially with Lloyds having the best answer in my opioion. The thread went to you know where when you revived it 3 years later...