Tried my hand at photographing a few of Zohar's ancients...

Ahaha ... wow, apparently I hit a nerve? (sorry, it was initially just a random-shot)

Hey guys, your coins and photos are awesome (don't get all playground-tough on us) ... there is room for all of our geeky hangups!!

Cheers, coin-brothers!!

We all love coins!!

 

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Will he get them back if he does?

 

See what you've done Steve? troublemaker.

Personally I don't mind slabbed coins whether they are ancient, modern, paper... whatever. But if I'm going to be buying an expensive coin I would surely want it slabbed.

 

He might, I am a huge fan of the ancient idea of taking a hostage to assure cooperation and/ or compliance.

 

After watching this and other forums for a few years, I'm no longer surprised at the vitriol toward those that slab their coins. It has happened with each major transition in the collecting world - US coins, colonials, world coins, etc. and ancients are just now beginning to increase in popularity to where slabbing is deemed useful.

There are some collectors who buy only in slabs, some collectors who refuse to buy slabbed coins, and some who are indiscriminate as to it being slabbed or not, cracking it out of the slab if necessary.

I'm in the last group but can completely understand the reasoning behind the other two groups (by value, about 3% of my collection was in slabs prior to me acquiring them). While slabs don't guarantee authenticity, it is a great second opinion, an easy way to store coins (which prevents cabinet friction from wearing away reverses), and it will absolutely help increase the reach of ancient coins to people already familiar with buying slabbed coins, wanting an extra degree of safety.

Cracking coins out carries some risk and I know that some dealers refuse to buy slabbed coins as they can't examine the coin themselves in-hand. Edge detail examination is a valid concern here, causing many recent auctions to keep the coins raw during lot viewing with an option to have them encapsulated, which satisfies the concerns of the dealers.

I too disagree with the need to slab low-value coins and I suspect much of the negativity toward slabbing has been due to the massive markups some dealers apply to them and the focus on the minutiae of subjective grading factors. One still needs to look at the coin itself, not just the numbers, and attribute an appropriate price based on the coin. Incidentally, of the slabbed coins I've purchased, many were far less expensive than they were when the coins were sold raw in years prior. Perhaps this abhorrence toward slabs ends up keeping some prices down - I certainly don't mind!

As for $5K or $150K coins not selling if they aren't slabbed, I don't see this as true at all today as the majority of expensive coins are still sold in Europe and Europe doesn't like "American plastic", as I've heard from several dealers. Sure, CNG might not have many bids on their best coins yet but very few bids are placed online at all (two weeks to go, and the majority of the action takes place live). I've sent in $100K+ in "placer" bids and have been outbid on many so I don't anticipate any lack of bidding despite the coins not being slabbed, but it's possible that some slab-only collectors will skip the sales. And, as of this moment, Heritage also has very few bids with most of their coins being slabbed.

One of the arguments is that ancient coins are meant to be handled and yes, it is very enjoyable to hold them. However, the reason that most of our coins have survived in nice condition for thousands of years is that they had been buried for a large portion of that time. Coins can be damaged and worn by handling, even if they have a flawless patina. I've heard horror stories of dealers dropping mint state aurei and having coins raw in a tray with the tray falling and causing the coins to ding up each other.

For me, the tactile enjoyment is a small fraction of the overall enjoyment, and it is mostly satisfied with a group of "fun" coins that I keep in my office while the rest remain locked away in safety deposit boxes.

My main gripe is that personally, I'd prefer to have images taken outside of the slabs to avoid any obfuscation of the coin's details. @Zohar444's coins aren't particularly affected by this but smaller coins lose a larger percentage of their detail to the slab's tabs. This could be circumvented with a different type of slab that holds the coin only by its edges.

When the time comes to sell my collection, if the market says that slabbing is preferred, I'd have no issue getting my coins slabbed or entombed in whatever futuristic approach is vogue at the time. If other collectors want to have their coins slabbed or if it causes one additional pair of eyes to look at some coins up for sale, I don't see anything at all wrong with it.

That's a good point for collectors looking for consistency as I've bumped into this myself. Outside of the types they avoid, NGC isn't able to slab coins which are too large (i.e. an aes grave) or too small (i.e. a hemihekte). Granted, neither of these can be stored easily in any manner, so I can't really blame them for that.

 

They also don't slab Indian, chinese, most Hunnic tribes, cast coins, etc, etc.

 

Even though I do not like Ancients in slabs, it doesn't bother me if others do. I'm very sorry though that you feel this is an unfriendly forum. I find it just the opposite for me. So many different personalities makes this an interesting and enjoyable place to retreat to from the problems of life.

 

Zo => you have nicer coins than 95% of us (sure, "maybe" AJ has a few nicer coins than me?)

... regardless ...

=> carry-on my wayward friend ... your slabbed-collection "rocks"



I am a total fan ...

 

All -

1) AJ's coins are among the finest I have seen assembled in any category so please do not compare my little collection to such magnificent effort. The funds on their own do not build such a aesthetic collection - its passion, research and knowledge, a business sense, relationship building, and execution.
2) I appreciate the kind words about my coins yet the sole issue here was the slab "bullying" not what's kept in the slab. My rule is live and let live. If you have nothing nice to say about an issue, don't say it (more than once). The fact that every post started a debate and I was even called a "coin elitist" by looking for higher graded pieces was not appreciated.
3) I do not work for NGC or claim to be a grader. I solely am drawn to eye appealing round thingies. I like the coin first and then the slab as validation.

 

Great pic's and awesome coins...

 

Like I said, I do not like nor do I collect Ancients in slabs. Most generally, I do not even look at Ancients in slabs that are at auction or for sale. But I do not begrudge anyone else the opportunity to buy coins in slabs. So, as far as this Ancients collector is concerned, when you come over you'll be welcome, and I'll enjoy seeing your coins as much as anyone else's.

 

Well does it matter what other people think? Its your collection and I say you collect your way and whichever way that makes YOU happy.

The only real difference in ancients and modern coins is that its ok to handle ancients. Not necessarily all of them, hence its ok to have them raw. Where as if you touch a MS 65 Morgan dollar it drops it straight down to MS 63 or 64.

 

Nicely put.

 

Hey, they're just coins, fellas ... it's a hobby => and this stuff is supposed to be fun ... I'm having fun!! (are you?)

Honestly, I hate slabs and I don't want them to infiltrate the ancient world ... but if they do, then that Zohar guy is to blame!!



just jokes

Merry Christmas, Z-444 ... try to relax a bit in 2015

"nice photos" => oh, and brg5658 is a definite asset (always sweet photos)

Yah, I hope that you dudes have a fantastic New Year's Eve and that you both show-up ready to "bring-more-slab-photos" in 2015 ...... they're kinda growin' on me!!

 

stevex6 - you are one of the more upbeat people I have virtually met!

Have a wonderful holiday and 2015!

 

Oh, and just to clear-the-air ...

=> I think that Doug is funny, occasionally misunderstood, but awesome!!

 

Brown nose!

 

Unrelated but neat isn't it?

 

=> 100%

... that chick rocks!!