In all likelyhood, you know there were two different 1908 St. Gaudens Double Eagles struck by the United States mints. You surely know that one variety has the Roman numeral date (MCMVIII) on the obverse and the other variety has the Arabic date (1908) on it's obverse. Did you ever take a close-up look at the difference in the reverses of those two coins? As you know, Teddy Roosevelt ordered the mint to omit the motto "IN GOD WE TRUST" when striking the 1907s. There was tremendous criticism by the public. Some people referred to the new $20 gold coins as "Godless" money. The mint (and President Roosevelt) received so much pressure from the public, congressmen and business people the motto was added to the 1908s after a striking of 4,271,551 coins by the Philadelphia Mint. No proofs were struck of these "no motto" pieces. 663,750 were struck at Denver. None were struck at San Francisco. 156,258 "motto" double eagle coins were struck at Philadelphia along with 101 proofs. Denver minted 349,500 "motto" coins and San Francisco produced a mere 20,000. Since the two varieties present two easily recognizeable reverses here they are for your perusal: 1907 reverse: http://www.coinfacts.com/double_eag.../Double_Eagle_1907_Ultra_HR_Rev_Trompeter.jpg 1908 reverse: http://www.coinfacts.com/double_eagles/saint_gaudens_double_eagles/Double_Eagle_1908_Rev_Trompeter.jpg Hope you enjoyed, Clinker
Clinker,Augustus St.-Gaudens' coin designs are fantastic.The gold coins are more like works of art than pieces that were once spent as money. Aidan.
Thanks for the trivia. Interesting the diff. things about diff. coins. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Phoenix
Aden, JeromeLS, USS656 and Phoenix21.. Thanks for the comments...Your comments and addendums are what keeps me searching for little known "trivia" about our hobby....again....thanks... Clinker
Hey Clinker, Just reviewing some upcoming live auctions on Ebay. Saw two $20 gold pieces and the first thing I did was look for the year to see if it was godless. They were not but still very nice looking coins... Now, I would not have known to look for this if not for my new found knowledge. Thanks again. Darryl
I am unaware of any 1908 $20s with Roman numerals; I thought they were all 1907. And the Roman numeral / Arabic numeral thing had nothing to do with "IN GOD WE TRUST"; none of the '07s had the motto. The 1907 Arabic numeral strikes were low-relief pieces intended for circulation. The Roman numeral strikes were from different dies. They were high relief and ultra-high relief, which are impractical for circulation; in high-relief pieces, the highest points of the design are higher than the rims, so they won't stack. Try to stack 'em and they wobble. Same problem with 1921 High Relief Peace dollars.
Some may be interested in what Teddy had to say about it. Roosevelt, at whose behest this coin was designed, specifically asked for its exclusion. He knew the lifestyles of many of the men out West where these coins were most seen in circulation. He did not believe the Lord’s name should be used on coins that were spent in saloons, gambling halls and brothels. The President expressed this view in a letter to Reverend Roland C. Dryer dated November 11, 1907:
All 1907s were struck without mottos, while the 1908s had varieties with and without mottos. The 1907 examples were produced with both Roman and Arabic numerials, and were struck with both wire and flat rims. Some examples were also found struck in ultra high relief. There were no 1908 Double Eagles struck with Roman numerials.
I made no issue with the Teddy Roosevelt thing, which is accurate. My point was solely about the date 1908. There are no Saints with MCMVIII (1908)... only MCMVII (1907). Some 1907s have Roman numerals, but most have Arabic numerals. The "1907 Arabic" vs. "MCMVII Roman" was all about high / low relief. It has nothing to do with the motto - all 1907s are "no motto". The motto issue was resolved in 1908, and affected only 1908 coinage ($10s and $20s). Both denominations are found with and without motto (1908 only). Another interesting facet about the motto issue... Teddy Roosevelt was a very devout man who felt the motto was sacreligious on coins... but good elsewhere (monuments, a speech opening Congress, etc). He was also big on "celebrating diversity", and supported William Howard Taft - a Unitarian. Roosevelt was a Protestant. He was tolerant of everything except nonsense. He also inherited coinage designs he felt were ugly, and pushed for the fabulous designs of the early 1900's - Indian $2.50 / $5, Indian $10, and the $20 Saint. Teddy was personal friends with Augustus St. Gaudens. Teddy Roosevelt. Heck of a man. We need to clone that guy.
And immoral women, too... the very few that braved the rough conditions. It was almost all men living in the deprivation - building railroads and such. History of the late 1800s is full of stories of ladies from the settled, civilized East who arrived in Utah, Idaho, etc., got off the train, took one look around, and got back on the train headed back east. There are some interesting insights on that in the story of the first party to run the river through the Grand Canyon - Major John Wesley Powell and friends - in August of 1869.
