I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm preparing a submission and I am trying to decide which tier to submit some coins in. For example let's say I have a1925 s peace dollar that I paid 63 money for which is under the $300 value so I should use economy and pay $18 bucks, but what if this has a great potential to go 64 which has a value significantly higher than the $300 for economy tier is it better for me to submit it under the early bird tier and pay $30 bucks to submit it. I've been assured that it won't affect my grade but one thinks that it could have a greater chance of getting the higher grade if you pay the higher submission price. What's your thoughts I've always struggled on placing the value of the coin down on the form. Maybe I've only have paid $12 for a choice 1976 s Ike that grades ms 68 and has. $450 value what do you place on the form for insurance and what tier do you submit it under?
If you think the coin has a good chance of getting the higher grade, then it is in your best interest to submit it under the higher tier. Remember, the coin is given an insurance value based on your estimate. NGC will not pay you more if it should get lost in the mail. So, you have to ask yourself, "Is it worth saving $12 on the grading tier and risk the $150 difference in value if it should get lost in the mail?" Chris
"Is it worth saving $12 on the grading tier and risk the $150 difference in value if it should get lost in the mail?" You'd need to experience about 1 in 12 coins getting lost in the mail for this to make financial sense. Real world losses must be under 1 in 100 so a sensible premium would be about $1.50. Do they insure it on the way to them, or just on the way back? In any case, $12 makes no sense if the only difference is the insurance coverage. Commercial transit insurers would be charging about 75c. per $100 cover for each trip in the mail.
You pay all shipping and insurance to them. You send registered, you pay for registered. Just as a side note, registered takes longer to get to them than regular priority mail. I have sent fully insured coins priority instead of registered just cause I didn't want to wait 5-6 days for it to go from NC to FL and priority was 2 days. They will ship back registered insured unless you check express mail or FedEx. So the value you put for your coins will set their return postage and insurance rate.
It would seem that the expense could be lowered considerably if the graders used a commercial transit insurance company and sent regular mail, and the submitters sent by regular mail using transit insurance, at least for coins under $500 per package. $12 you'd pay for registered would instead cover $1500 worth of coins against loss with regular mail and insurance. The maximum indemnity with registered is very small unless insurance is extended at the way above market rates that USPS uses. The amount that is being paid for risk cover vastly exceeds the risk unless the consignment is a couple of thousand dollars worth. Obviously the graders don't return coins with their commercial name on the package, or do they? This seems to be asking for trouble when a plain envelope or package is the obvious security choice, with the return address some PO Box. And surely submissions should also be sent to some PO BOX instead of a coin grading company. This last part is just theorising, I have no idea how it is actually done. Transit insurers do cover coins as 'Numismatic material' even if the exclude coins as plain old money from coverage.
The nice thing about registered mail is its securely locked up wherever it goes until you sign for it. NGC does not put their name on the return address but any bozo that works at the PO they use has to know it's their packages. Plus they send in boxes like people stored their baseball cards in with seperaters between the slabs. Unless it's a large number of 5oz pucks if you know what to look for you can ID their boxes. I have not heard of any coins not being delivered so I assume the loss rate is very very low or not at all. If I had 50-100k worth of coins to be graded I would drive or fly them down and then go pick them up.
So in the case of the IKE if it did get lost I'm truly out $12 which is the original price that I paid. My real question is does the tier that you submit the coin effect the grade on coins that you can buy under $300 and if you get lucky they come back with a higher grade and are worth more than $300 due to the assigned grade which was an unknown at the time that you submitted the coin.
I would find it highly disturbing if the grading result hinged on such small financial incentive. When people claim that volume submitters get favorable grades, that's appalling enough.
I think if submitting in a higher tier got you a higher grade, then this would have been exploited. The graders probably aren't looking at the tier your submission is in, rather just grading your coins. Having higher quality or key date coins in your submission probably increases the likelihood of getting a better grade. Also, my recent submission to PCGS through USPS was actually a few dollars cheaper to ship Priority Express with insurance than Registered. And, it got there the next day.
So, which coin is the one that gets lost? First one? Last one? Or, somewhere in the middle? Also, what would happen if you severely underestimated the actual grade the coin ultimately received? Chris
You all bring up good points, so the graders have no idea what tier the coin was submitted under? As far as shipping goes, I've had great luck using USPS Priority Express with insurance and have had good luck. My next submission is one that I might use registered mail on as it has some higher end coins.
The graders do not know the submission tier. Additionally, I have never experienced either PCGS or NGC bumping up my submission fees when a coin grades higher than might be reasonably expected.
You play the numbers. If it costs more to prevent something happening than it would cost if it happened, money spent on prevention is wasted. Probability gives the casino owners Lear Jets and you a battered pickup truck. Probability keeps the insurance companies in profit. Properly evaluated, probability, in this case the very small risk of loss needs to be weighed against the certain cost of extra expensive transit, which can be easily worked out. If you have comprehensive all risks cover on your household contents it may well be that numismatic material sent to professional graders is already covered under existing insurance. Possibly not specifically, but there's no harm asking for a clarification. They can't say any worse than that it is specifically not covered, and that's what you are assuming already. In situations where there is no risk of catastrophic loss (million dollar fire or auto claims) it is always worth considering covering any risk yourself and balancing the money you are not paying out against the value of probable losses in the process. My experience of having thousands of often quite valuable packages delivered by routine USPS mail services is that the service is very reliable, and assuming a loss rate as high as 1 in 100 packages would be pessimistic.
I asked an NGC representative and she clearly said that as long as there aren't any gold or valuable silver coins included, economy is OK. Edit: I use my yearly "Early Bird" voucher for coins that could exceed the $300 limit if they grade higher than expected.
It's good to know that you are secure enough, financially, to be able to self-insure. The question remains, "Is the average person capable of sustaining such a loss?" Chris
The question remains, "Is the average person capable of sustaining such a loss?" Of course they are, the money saved on cheaper shipping overall more than compensates for the very rare loss. We are talking about hobby spending here, not multi-million dollar claims. The chances of loss are easily small enough to make the money saved well outweigh the small risk. For the terminally worried,you can use a commercial transit insurer and regular mail, cost there about 75c. per $100 insured value, and numismatic material is covered. Users need to consider all possible options, not just the most obvious ones that are also the most expensive.
I think there is too much paranoia going on here. I have never had a package lost coming from NGC. I list what I paid for the coin, not what I think it's worth after its graded. That way I am covered for my outlay in case something happened. Even an expert eye can't guarantee what the ultimate grade is going to be. It's the grader that does that. And even if you get a great grade and the coin is lost or stolen how can you prove its worth X when you didn't get it and resold it? They aren't going to pay you on what it "might" be worth after its slabbed. It will be what YOU paid for it because that's the only proof you will have in hand. So you can insure for the cost of going to the moon but they will never give you that much in return. Just list what you paid for the coins and a little more to cover your trip to the PO and let NGC ship back to you registered.
Honestly I'll often send coins worth over $300 economy it has no bearing. I usually send most anything under $450 or so economy and declare value say $280. Is primarily insurance reasons and I save money on submission fees just sent out about 35 coins between pcgs and ngc. They got them a week or so ago All were economy except some gold to pcgs. It makes no bearing on the grade one of the first submissions I did economy had a 21 peace I graded au 50 value $120 or so it came back ms-63 value by pcgs price guide $500+ so it makes no difference I don't do this with higher dollar coins tho ones that's obvious. I'm not gonna send a high grade bust an early proof a cc trade etc economy. But say a seated half that books at 220 in xf that's clearly a $425 high au yup I'll go the cheap route every time
