This EBAY looks fake... is it?

I dont see the problem...he isnt hurting anyone or ripping anyone off...

 

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This is from the SS Website on counterfitting. All he has to do is reduce or increase the size.

Rickieb

 

I dont like collecting fakes or altered items ... may be thats why I'm feeling like this... I dont know..

 

i've never been given the opportunity to visit your crew. heheh...and with good luck, i'll never have to! :smile actually, i've never been to the whole victory/wash/liberty/biap area. i really wanted to see the crossed swords monument before they took it down...

 

back on topic...


the point i was trying to raise is that this guy is using government seals for profit.

from a non-numismatic viewpoint, it would be similar if i took the royal coat of arms of the queen of england and printed it on envelopes...then sold those envelopes on ebay. of course, i'd include the disclaimer: "this is not official royal stationary. i printed the official emblems outside of windsor castle."

surely, the british government would be interested that i'm making money off of their government emblems.

 

Still,it doesn't change the fact that this eBay vendor is a wanker.He should have stated that it isn't a real note in both the title & the discription.

Aidan.

 

Aidan try reading for once, he states it quite clearly, also please try to moderate your language this is a family site. San Migel you can buy copies of the Royal crest at most tourist shops and on line that the Goverment nor the palace have anything to do with.

De Orc :kewl:

The note is real, the overprint is not

 

weird. royal crest souvenirs aren't licensed by the government, and they don't care?

maybe brits do things differently. in new york, the city licenses souvenirs with the logos of the NYPD, FDNY, and other municipal organizations and make plenty of profit. if i overprinted dollar bills with the NYPD crest and sold them on e-bay, they'd be very angry with me.

what i don't like about this dealer on ebay, is that:

1) he's using computer software to isolate and reproduce certain banknote features
2) he's plastering official government symbols all over the place as a gimmick
3) he takes currency, prints over it, and sells it for 10x face value
and most importantly...
4) his buyers know they're fake, but what happens when those buyers turn around and try to sell them to noobies as genuine errors for $$$$?

along with this e-bay seller, i also strongly dislike people who take uncut banknote sheets and chop them up in nontradtional ways. and also people who add chemicals to u.s. federal reserve bank seals to make them change into weird colors. and anybody else who makes these "fake errors".

it's a slimy way to make a quick buck. twenty years from now, the note will still be here...the ebay disclaimer won't. someone will eventually fall for it.

 

San Miguel I have absolutly no problem with your list of dislikes about this vendor and would agree with you on most points, (I do like his Intalgos) it was the throwing about of accusations of Forgery n stuff that annoyed me. Yep I have allways found it quite strange as well that they dont enforce licence's a lot more, quite a few articles are officialy licenced but belive me many are not. Every now and then they will have a crack down on the vendors and try to block the stuff coming into the country as most is made in the far east.

De Orc :kewl:

 

Hey De Orc,

You and I being form the South and have gotten along very well in the past right? Well my friend if you go to the SS website and look at the entry I posted, the Fed is saying that it is an act of conterfeit if the sizes are the same! My friend, this seller can do as he pleases it does not bother me, but lets get our facts straight.

The Fed could go after him for his fun money!! Period point blank.

"The illustration is of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of the item illustrated "

Take care and be well my friend!!

RickieB

 

He's got some nice coin copys! Gold for 20 bones!

 

Going back to what it says ojn the web site...

You say, "The Fed could go after him for his fun money!! Period point blank." and "Right now he is breaking the law!!" based on the overprinting of certain elements on an actual note. I (along with the others) disagree.

First, the note is neither a color nor black and white illustration of a US note. Due to this, I don't think any of what you posted (quoted off the web site) applies. What he is doing may or may not be legal, but if it is illegal, it isn't for the reasons you posted (quoted). He may be breaking the law, but he's not breaking *that* law. Reproducing elements (such as the seal) may not be legal, printing them on an actual note may be (if it's not a law, then it's legal until it becomes a law). I couldn't find anything about reproducing elements and printing them on an actual note.

Also, you refer to it as "fun money" as if it's counterfeit... it isn't.

I understand that your point is that he's using a exact sized seal (along with other parts) which you feel violates this... "The illustration is of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of the item illustrated" -but again I think this is meant for reproduction in books, printed materials, etc., and not meant for reproduction on actual US notes.

It's certainly an interesting question, but IMHO it's far from as simple as "He's breaking the law, the feds can go after him" -etc.

 

Althoug I don't agree with his selling practices it is cleary stated that the error is not real.
Having sold enough legit stuff on ebay i have found (as have all sellers) people don't read. I've never taken Paypal but people still try and pay me with it all of the time even though it is CLEARLY stated.

Shame on the seller but shame on the buyer for not reading the BIG print.

 

Title 18, United States Code, Section 504 permits black and white reproductions of currency and other obligations, provided such reproductions meet the size requirement. See the section on this website entitled Know Your Money for more information.

Says it all he is NOT REPRODUCING CURRENCY, he is simply overprinting it in the same manner that Coins are overstruck!! The Currency itself is Real.

De Orc

PS Rickie dont know where you got me been from the South from LOL I am Welsh

 

PS Rickie dont know where you got me been from the South from LOL I am Welsh[/quote]


Whoops.. sorry De Orc...got you mixed up with Drusus..

RickieB

For Smajimmy:

Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. Their address is: United States Secret Service, 1800 G Street, N. W., Washington, DC 20223.


Do you think they are unfit for re-issue?? I do!! After all they are real notes!!

RickieB

 

Here is the situation as I see it:

Defacement (in legal terms)? Probably not. The currency can still circulate.

Counterfeiting? I think yes. He is not counterfeirting the whole bill, and he is sayinbg that the "errors" are fake. BUT...he is reproducing elements of US currency. This is, I believe illegal. Whether he is printing these additional details on a printer or by means of a rubber stamp, he is reproducing design elements from currency.

 

What amazes me is he actually has multiple bids on some of these bills. What do people think they are getting?:whistle:

 

I think we all can agree this wouldn't fall under mutilating, cutting, disfiguring, perforating, uniting or cementing together. That only leaves the rather vague "or does any other thing" left. Would stamping it or writing "wheresgeorge.com" fall under that? What about folding it, especially if you fold it too many times. Washing it might go under there too.

Regardless, any of that is meaningless without the very important, "...with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued." Proving "intent to render unfit to be reissued" sounds like a nightmare. This may be yet another unenforceable law on the books, I don't know.

I think the bottom line is that if you wash, stamp, write all over a note in your possession, it is unlikely that you'll be fined $100 or go to jail for up to six months. It is my belief that one could wash the *bleep* out of notes and sell them on Ebay all day long if one desires. In fact, I'd like to see examples of when Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code has been enforced (if ever) before I could say anything definitive. Know of any cases?

I do not feel they have been rendered unfit for reissue. yes they have markings, but they could be spend, pulled at a bank and replaced. Thus, no violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code IMHO.

He's not counterfeiting the bill at all. He's not reproducing notes either.

I don't mean to sound argumentative or brash, but while your beliefs are wonderful, show me the written law.

 

Samjimmy....

I am not trying to be a hard a** either..I did show you the law. That is the way it is written in our law!
Vauge? Yes indeed...but it is the law. Will this guy suffer from it..perhaps not!

The point is and has been made that it is that wrongful atleration of a Federal Reserve Bank note..
It's just that simple.
Have a great day and show us some of your currency??? Do you collect currency?

Regards to all....

RickieB

 

Gentlemen - the reason some decisions of the Supreme Court are not unanimous is that the application of many, many laws to specific fact situations is uncertain and/or ambiguous.

Both sides of the "is he violating the law" question have been fully discussed (all by non-attorneys so far as I can tell). Now let's drop that issue and get back to chatting about coins/currency.