What is going on with the Roman bronzes?

They've just posted the "360 degree" views of their coins, which might be of interest: http://www.studioskyline.com/clienti/bertolami/360/acr/asta12/0660.html

The complete list is here: http://www.artcoinsroma.it/files/360list.html

 

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Wow, they have a couple of nice ones in there, eh?

 

Not so nice are the incredibly high fees in this ACR auction! If you bid live online, you'll end up paying at minimum 24.5+% above hammer.

22% Buyer's premium (includes VAT for EU bidders so this might be lower for non-EU bidders)

2.5% on top of hammer if you bid live online (Coretech horrible-- they should give us a discount for the hassle factor )

3.5% extra if you pay via PayPal or credit card

15 EUR if paying by bank check, cashier's check, foreign check, or wire transfer.

... then there's the exchange rate, which is not particularly favorable for some of us.

I have numerous ACR 12 coins on my watch list but these extortionist fees may deter me from bidding on anything.

 

Man, they should at least have an EID MAR door prize for anybody that decides to bid and has to pay those ridiculous add-ons!

 

I'd settle for a nice Akragas obol

 

As good as some coins might look on the in the 360° view, I recommend you to bid very cautiously.

This sale bears both opportunities and risks. There are opportunities of making bargains*), just as there are risks of being duped by tampered or even forged coins. An inspection by an independent and well-versed expert might be a good idea to minimize the latter.

*): I do not like bargains.

 

I could not agree more but, really, when we have to protect ourselves from 'problems' in this manner, what is it we are getting out of the buyer's fee and other expenses attached to a high end sale? If we have to treat a venue like we do a flea market or eBay, we might as well pay our 'well-versed expert' to find us what we want and not bother him with specific coins we have seen in glossy catalogs. If one wants to put a million $ in the finest coins, it might be wisest to send the money to that 'well-versed expert' and tell him to buy us $750k worth of coins and keep the change. I know professionals in the business whom I would trust far before those who run some of the sales and I suspect they know where to find some things I might like. Sales that charge 24% for services not rendered (selling questionable coins is exactly that) only stay in business because there are people willing to send them money. There is nothing wrong with paying a high premium for high premium services. A 'bargain' is not something that is low priced but something that turns out to be worth every cent we paid even a tad more.

 

Dear Dougsmit,

your words really struck a cord with me.

There are quite a couple of major auction houses that do not feel responsible for assuring the quality of the coins offered on their behalf. They leave it up to their customers to asses authenticity and tampering. From this point of view, they are no different in substance to ebay, which is a heartless auction platform lacking any interest in whether it is selling coins, forgeries or candies. Of course, as a customer of a major auction house, I expect both expertise and sense of responsibility for honest catalog descriptions since I am considerably paying more fees in comparison to ebay. I am wondering how negligently once proud companies are tarnishing their own reputation.

Greetings,

Marc Aceton

 

Doug rocks

 

All I ask is that we get what we pay for in both coins and service and are treated like customers, not fools. When we continue to patronize houses that sell tooled/fake coins and treat us like we should feel lucky they will accept our business, we are being fools.

 

I agree 100% percent







... 100 percent

 

Dear Doug,

of course, sales like the one being discussed allow collectors to capture opportunities if they are able to separate the wheat from the chaff. There are always quite a couple of gems between all those coins one had better offer at ebay. One has to assess his own capabilities realistically and decide whether or not to take the risk.

Nevertheless, even at the most reputable auction houses, collectors must be able to form their own impression regarding quality and price/performance ratio. Further, they always have to shoulder a certain amount of self-responsibility to rule out being duped by a forged or tampered coin.

Greetings,

Marc Aceton

 

This thread was worth resurrecting in order to give followup on the numerous coins of questionable authenticity in Art Coin Roma's recent auction (Auction 12, October 29-30, 2014).

ACR had problems with the auction beyond inauthentic coins. Coretech was having problems, the internet service at the auction venue was unable to handle the traffic, etc. It was a mess.

Absolutely shameful. Fortunately I did not bid in this auction.

From an email sent by ACR today:

Dear Customer,

We would like to inform you that ACR Auctions has withdrawn lots 100, 150, 156, 192, 217, 220, 263, 571, 603, 688, 705, 724, 807, 838, 891, 701 and 976 from auction nr. 12 of the 29th and 30th October 2014. Those lots have been identified and documented by our experts indisputably as not being original.
Other lots have been withdrawn by ACR Auctions during the auction sessions, as doubts about their authenticity have been raised by a variety of authoritative and less authoritative professionals.
With respect of the principles of maximum correctness and transparency towards their clients, ACR Auctions has withdrawn the above lots only and exclusively to carry out further verifications, in order to eliminate any doubts concerning their authenticity.
The necessary verifications will be carried out as soon as possible and should the authenticity of the lots be confirmed, the items will be offered again for sale.
Best regards,

ACR Auctions

Here are the coins, with links the Sixbid listing for each:

Lot 100, Sicily, Herbessos, Litra


Lot 150, Sicily, Morgantina. litra


Lot 156, Sicily, Naxos. litra


Lot 192,Sicily, Syracuse. Deinomenid Dinasty (485-466), Tetradrachm


Lot 217, Sicily, Syracuse. Agathokles tetradrachm


Lot 220, Sicily, Syracuse. Agathokles 25 litrai


Lot 263, Macedonia, Thraco-Macedonian Tribes, The Bisaltai, Octodrachm


Lot 571, Cn. Pompeius f. with M. Minatius Sabinus, Denarius, Spain


Lot 603, Augustus (27 BC - AD 14), Aureus, Uncertain (Eastern ?) mint


Lot 688, Otho aureus, Rome


(continued below)

 

Lot 705, Titus sestertius


Lot 724, Domitian sestertius


Lot 807, Marcus Aurelius sesterius


Lot 838, Lucius Verus aureus


Lot 891, Julia Mamaea aureus


Lot 701, Vespasian aureus (I think this inclusion was a typo; the email listed lots in numerical order so I suspect they meant lot 901; see next entry)


Lot 901, Maximus sestertius


Lot 976, Valentinian II solidus


As if having the above seventeen lots confirmed as inauthentic wasn't bad enough, note the second paragraph of their email:

Other lots have been withdrawn by ACR Auctions during the auction sessions, as doubts about their authenticity have been raised by a variety of authoritative and less authoritative professionals.

 

But you have to give them credit: They drew the right conclusion.

 

You are right, of course, but it seems to me they came to the conclusions late in the game. It does not inspire confidence for future auctions.

 

Additionally, it is showing the entire trade in a very bad light. This sale is not the only landmine field I encountered.

 

Some of the coins are laughable...how can they have been deemed authentic enough to even list them..? Tha Maximus sestertius is a joke!

 

It could be that the Maximus is just heavily tooled and not forged. At the sales of the auction house, one can always "admire" devilishly well-made fake patinas. For instance, the Caligula sestertius depicted below is either at least on the reverse heavily tooled or completely forged. Nevertheless, the surface look very authentic on the photo but must be artificial. I am very curious what they applied on the surfaces and whether or not one can identify the fraud with acetone or white spirit. Fortunately, the experts who are now examining the coins will have the opportunity to learn more about these new methods of the obviously very skillful fraudsters.

http://www.studioskyline.com/clienti/bertolami/360/acr/asta12/0628.html

 

Huh?, that is disturbing, eh?

... but I guess as long as the dawgs that I'm buying my coins from continue to give me a money back guarantee on authenticity, then I'm still gonna play the game (it's a pretty fricken fun game)

... but thanks, coin-princess => it is definitely an eye-opener (my cool seller had also given me a heads-up)




... ummm, once bitten and all ...