High End Ancients

Supply and demand are what drive the price for any item. That being said, I'm still trying to figure out what drives the prices for certain ancient coins through the roof. For US coins, it's the convergence of a popular series(demand) with limited examples especially in higher grades (supply). So I can tell that an 1893 S Morgan dollar in AU 58 is going to go for mad money.

I'm still trying to learn what elements create the same market conditions for ancient coins. What drives the price for ancient coins like the examples I've listed below through the roof? What makes these particular specimens so popular?

Obviously, it goes back to supply and demand, why do these examples sell for many times more than a nice Julius Caesar portrait denarius? How realistic are the prices for these coins? Has the seller overpriced these two or does he stand a good chance of getting close to the BIN price he's asking?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITHRADATES...290?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338dc8d122

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SICILY-Sicu...846?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b68c05a6

 

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Good question. There are some here who know this market, it will be interesting to hear. From my cheap impression, I would think he has a better shot with the Siculo-Punic. It really is a spectacular coin. I love the cross infusion between classical Sicilian with classical Punic styles. Very pretty and historically important coin.

 

man i have no idea...that just isn't the league i play in. i am interesting everyone insights here.

here's my league..

 

Mithradates is a well known and significant historical figure. The other is a beautiful coin. Both are popular now and, I suspect, will continue to be.

 

The exact same coin being marketed on the 'bay for $95k is being sold on Vcoins for $49.5k. Clearly where you shop also makes a big difference.

 

This is a fascinating topic for me as a new comer to ancients. What are these things really worth? My US coin experience was dominated by valuations and investment sentiments. I could never sort out in my own mind if I was buying a coin because it was worth a certain amount or because I thought it was a beautiful coin. Clearly it's resale value mattered to me. Not so with ancients. I collect these because they are amazing to see and touch and with each coin I learn something that is new to me. This new learning is of "value" to me. Is my ancient experience a higher "quality" experience than my US experience? I think it is.

But why the coins in the OP and their crazy price tags? I'd say the guy is just trying to draw attention to his store or he's trying to impress someone. It did make me look at his other items, some of which were reasonably priced. But obviously the value and quality dimension for this guy is all whack-a-doodle because, as you can see he still wants the buyer to pay $5 for shipping, even for a $95,000 item.

 

Nobody buys $95,000 coins on eBay or vcoins. JB has it right: it's advertisement. Someone interested in those coins would contact the dealer, then fly himself and David Sear (or any of a handful of professionals) to look at the coin in person, and if everything checked out, negotiate a price and have his personal banker write a check.

 

I love both these coins, but I will never part with that kind of cash for these or any other coin. Especially buying from Ebay or any other seller I do not know personally and trust. But, hey, that will never happen!!!!!

 

I don't know much about market value when it comes to ancients. I buy what I like at a level that I can still eat and the pay the bills... somewhat.

 

Those are both overpriced, although historic and attractive types. However, these particular examples aren't all that great - the metal quality leaves something to be desired and the marks on the Mithradates would be a deal breaker for me.

 

One of the best features of the Internet is the relatively easy availability of useful information on high-end coin prices, via the acsearch.info site. In particular, it takes only a very brief search to find a recently sold example of the Mithradates that is a far superior coin at a much lower price:




This coin sold in March 2014 for about $50,000 including buyer's fee.

From time to time I will view EBay's offerings of high-value ancient coins and compare them to reality via a brief search of the Internet. 100% of the time, EBay's high-value ancient offerings are, to put it bluntly, a joke. To use them as a basis of comparison for the overall high-value ancient coin market is useless and misleading. The two coins above are no exception to that rule.

Except in very rare circumstances, supply-and-demand determines prices for ancient coins as it does for most other items in a free market. The rare circumstances seem to occur when a bidding war between two or more very wealthy individuals overrule logic and drives prices beyond what most people would consider reasonable. About six years ago I saw, and bid on, a Roman quadrigatus that was estimated at $6,000 and described as "one of the best of its type." It went for about $12,000 (if I recall correctly). I didn't win it. The buyer sold it at a later auction that year for over $20,000, and THAT buyer sold it at an auction less than a year later for -- get this -- over $200,000 when two wealthy Russian (I think) bidders got into a war over who would own this "best of its type" quadrigatus. I don't know if that quadrigatus will ever be able to fetch its most recent price, but the owner probably doesn't care since he now owns the "best" quadrigatus in existence.

 

quadrigatus? just when you think you know all the denominations.......

 

On the topic of value and quality of ancient coins (vs US or bullion): this small coin of Crispus, I think is very attractive and well struck. The relief is very high. It has an artistic look. I know it is a "silvered follis" so in precious metal terms it is not valuable. In numismatics terms it is quite common. But I really like this coin and I consider it to be of high value and quality. It cost me $35. I am a happy man!

 

Satisfaction with a coin is not measured by it's costs nor it's value in the market!

 

Amen, my brother!

 

That is actually quite literally what caused the price - from what I've heard the collector who one it was the same collector who is assembling the best possible ancient "type set" and needed the highest grade/finest style quadrigatus (and can effectively afford anything at any price). That price is a bit insane for the coin itself but compared to many other coins like the US 1794 $1 which sold for $10M, it sounds cheap.

 

There is always the person/persons who wish to owns the "best" known. Not the second best.

 

It is a wonderful coin. One can only wonder where it spent 2000 years with so little change from the day it was made.

 

who is to say that this incredible Agrippina Sestertia is only worth $4m when the US 1794 $1 fetched $10m ?

i have seen this coin on the FRONT COVER of the book 'WOMEN OF THE CAESARS' by Giorgio Giacosa.

One of the worlds finest Sestercia

 

I'll never have the means to own something like these coins, but I can enjoy from afar. Heck, I even have trouble parting with a hundred bucks. It gives me heartburn just thinking about it! I know a coin like the Agrippina Sestertius above will most probably be worth at least for what it sold, but a coin like this would always have to be placed in a safety deposit box and rarely held and enjoyed like I do with my less desirable/less costly coins. I think I'll stick to my end of the collecting spectrum.