chach coins

hi all,
i recently picked up a couple of chach coins i thought i'd share. these are cheapies i was going to post in the "barrel scrapings" thread, but i don't remember seeing a chach thread here...so i'll give them their own.

i don't know much about the chach people, they are usually lumped into the "pre-islamic asian" category and lived in an area that today would be in kazakhstan. they have some pretty interesting looking coins that have some sogdian similarites. THC and MED are experts in these type of coins, i'd love to hear more about them from you guys...or form any of you guys or girls.

here's the first...




here's my best shot at attribution..

Tuun Qaghan
650-700 AD
Chach AE unit (drachm?)

o: male and female heads facing

r: tamgha (with sogdian legend?)

24x20 mm
2.3 g

this is an ugly coin, but i really like it. as bad a shape as it's in, it's pretty much going rate for the type. it was 5 bucks well spent to me.

i'll post another later on. feel free to post any chach or related coins here!

 

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Chach issued his own coins? Interesting. I knew he was old, but that old?

Chach Approved!

 

I have a couple of Chach mint coins. Chach has a long numismatic history, they were ruled by Indo-Greeks and later Kushans and Indo Scythians.

I have a couple but cant seem to locate a photo, Ill have to come back to this.

 

male and female heads...now i'm starting to get it.

 

Medoraman is more the Central Asia specialist than i am. My focus lies a bit more south in Bactria. But i welcome the attention for some of these seemingly obscure regions ! I do have some Chach coins, but these are worn and didn't photograph well. But to stay in the region: This is a (common) little silver from Sogdiana, just south of the Chach region and to the north of Bactria.

 

that's a cool little coin THC, what is the reverse figure? an archer?

here's my other chach bargain bin purchase...




king tarnavch
chach AE unit
600-700 AD
o: lion (if they say so)
r: tamgha (with sogdian legend?)
18 mm
1.7g

the reverse is weak on mine, here' one for sale on numismal that has a weak obverse but very nice reverse.

http://www.numismall.com/acc/Rare-A...d-7th-8th-century-AD-type-2-Sh-K-246-248.html

 

Interesting new chach pickup ...

... but sadly, I'm pretty sure that I don't have any chach-examples to add to your Happy Days thread ... I do have a handful of Potsies, but maybe I'll wait and post them later!

 

I now feel an cultural gap the size of the atlantic ocean. No idea who these guys are.
The reverse of my silver one indeed show an archer. These exist in different stages of abstraction. This is a still reasonably reckognizable one.

 

Don't worry I don't either.

 

The guys were characters on TV.

"Happy Days" was an American television sitcom that originally aired from 1974 to 1984. It has some spin-off TV shows including some of the same characters.

 

what about Fonze coins? eeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhh!

 

Sorry I didn't notice this thread earlier. Chach is usually lumped in with Sogdia. It was an oasis. It has one of the more diverse pre-islamic coin series there is. Over the course of about 3 centuries they had maybe 40 different AE types issued. All of the have the tamgha, (special mark), of the current leader on the reverse. The snow leapard type of king tarnavch is one of the most common types. I cannot make out the first one really.

As for Chach coins, I own tons. Maybe 35 types of AE coins, about 250 altogether. I just don't have them photographed.

The silver one THCoins posted is an extremely nice example of the type. This was a silver copy of a greek coin. Its one of the first coins produced in the region of their own style. Even though its roughly a copy, its easily identifiable as a unique coin. This silver is pretty small, about 12mm usually.

As for references, there is actually a nice Russian/English book on Chach coins called Coins of the Chach Oasis, and its available on Ebay at time for like $40. Great deal. Other Sogdian coins are much harder to get references for. The best is Smirnova, 1982, but its in Russian only and very scarce. There are also specific references for Khwarizm coins, (a new silver one was just published this year), and a new small paperback book on cash imitations from Semeriechi. Its in Russian with one page of summary.

Dang, I wish I was better at coin photography and had the time. Chach is probably the easiest Sogdian coins to get, but there are some grat rarities too. I just bought the "sitting king" type, very rare. I haven't even got it in the mail yet from Europe.

Here are a few close relatives of Chach coins I happen to have photos of. The first if of a camel with a fire alter on the reverse, the second kind of like THCoins, an imitation of a greek coin with Hercules on the obverse, and Zeus on the reverse. This one, though, is not very common at all, its from SouthSogdia, and its the first time I saw one for sale.

Btw, you do know Sogdians were ethnically Iranian, right? This is why I like the camel coin so much, camel to represent their trade prowess, but fire alter to show they were also Iranians who shared zoroastrianism with their cousins to the SW.

 

FEL TEMP sounds like ancient history to me...

 

India, Jammu
Indo-Scythians
Rujuvula as Satrap of Chach (10 BC -10 AD)
Billon Drachm 14 mm x 2.39 grams
Obv. Diademed bust of Rujuvula right. Crude BASILWS SWTPOS
Rev. Athena Pallas Standing Gorgon shield and hurling thunderbolt (imitation Indo-Greek Issues)-Kharoshti legend around Chatrapasa apratihatachabrasa, control marks in field.
Ref: MACW 2501
Note: Rare silver rich Billon.

 

Weird. Yes, the Skythians controlled Chach before the arrival of the Yueh Chi, (later Kushans), but a mint in India would be about 1500 miles away from Chach. So a leader in India was claiming to be ruler of Chach at the same time? Its possible, since the timeframe is about right, I guess I just had never heard the Skythian empire was that large.

All of Sogdia changed hands repeatedly after Alexander took the "Sogdian Rocks". First Greeks, then Skythians, then Yeuh Chi, then Huns, (both Red and White), then Chinese, then Huns again, and finally Islam. This is a rough guide of course, since the Chinese only took the eastern parts. The Sogdians simply accepted new overlords, where further south they fought them. This devastation, first by Skythians and later by Yueh Chi, really is what disrupted the earlier, more southerly silk road, and moved it north to pass through Sogdia.

 

Rather than traditional territorial boundaries, a better gauge of the true extent of the Indo Scythian dominion would probably be a map like this showing the extent of the language family.

Here is Jammu not too far from Chach or Sogdiana..

 

Oh, ok man. I was thinking it was further down. I guess I am showing my Indian geographical ignorance again. I just wish I could get "into" Indian coins more.

 

When I look at coins of India and Central Asia, I can not help thinking of that old joke of saying "It's Greek to me". Chach coins have reverse legends. They are not Greek. Several other civilizations issued coins clearly labeled in some language. What language is not always obvious to me but I am relieved when I see one in Greek. I'm even a little bit happy to see something in Devanagari. The languages on some of these coins will take longer to learn than Greek - much longer.

 

For Sogdian coins, pay most attention to the tamghas. The tamghas were the real indication of who was in charge, and was the one thing everyone could recognize. By following tamghas versus styles, the entire series makes more sense to me.

 

Did anyone mention that the Happy Days joke in this thread was based on there being a character named Chachi on the show. I wonder if the spinoff would have done as well had it been called 'Joanie Loves Tuun Qaghan'? I wonder if the queen on the coin looked anything like Erin Moran? It is hard to tell from our low grade coins.

Before someone asks: Tamghas are the monogram like symbols on the reverse of many on these coins. Rulers tended to have one unique to them rather than just a name spelled out in letters. Did anyone ever consider the alternative name of musician Prince to be a tamgha?