Anyone think it’s time for the mint to lower prices?

The mint markets ASE’s as bullion, most are held as bullion, and most that buy them only care about the silver content.

The mint is a “big boy” and is playing the bullion game just like the rest of the speculators, yet with unfair monopoly powers. So, hell no, I’m not willing to guarantee its losses and neither is the market. How many bullion ASE’s do you think they would sell if they were offered at twice the spot price? Do you really think speculators would be willing to cover mint losses? Well, little collectors shouldn’t be expected to either.

 

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Uhhhh...........yeah!

 

Huh?

Sorry, but the US Mint is most certainly a monopoly as no where else in the world can someone manufacture united states coins. Legally that is.

 

Well, I'd have to see the law you're referring to - I don't see it that way. I understand the mint is required to and does adjust the price of gold bullion coins per their pricing grid with no requirement to sell existing inventory first. And, I believe ASE's are adjusted as well, otherwise they would not be able to sell them.

If speculators bought the mint's ASE's at twice the price they could sell them for, they would be covering the mint's losses.

 

Well, I'll look for the law, but again, with the way they adjust the bullion coin prices often, the only way to always sell at a gain would be to always have the coins sold before they buy the bullion to make them (which they may do) or to constantly buy bullion at lower prices to be able to sell at a profit and retain the higher priced bullion in inventory, which would be derferring the lose, unless spot went back up.

I have heard the mint is required to make a profit, but that was in reference to commemoratives, before surcharges were paid. So, apparently there were some commens the mint lost money on, which prompted the change in the law.

Not a big IF, if the spot price were half what the mint paid for it.

 

http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aar.../v1414814448861/images/PDFs/PMPricingGrid.pdf

Again, as I said before, as a taxpayer, I'm all for the US Mint remaining profitable.

Beyond that, those claiming the US Mint has a monopoly are misunderstanding the word monopoly. Just because you're the only producer of a specific style of product doesn't mean you have a monopoly.

Toyota doesn't have a monopoly over Camry or Prius model vehicles, since those are considered to be interchangeable with other mid-premium and hybrid vehicles. Similarly, the US Mint doesn't have a monopoly over one-ounce silver eagles, since others sell silver bullion products.

Any argument that starts with "The US Mint is the only one who can mint US coinage" actually lends itself to failure, since that creates an inherent implication that ASEs should sell for a premium. If you don't like the size of the premium, you can always buy non-US Mint silver.

 

Yes, very simple example and it only works if the mint buys bullion to fill locked in orders. If, they're sitting on some bullion, they could lose. Now, they can sit on it forever and unless the price recovers, they will lose eventually.

I too used a simple example of pm's declining to half price, any change in price will produce gains or losses. As was mentioned earlier, the mint hasn't changed prices on numimatic silver bullion since silver was $24/oz, yet it has declined 33%. And yes, at one time the mint did regularly adjust the price of silver numismatic products.

 

You apparently don't understand US COIN collecting. US COIN collecting means collecting US COINS and there's only one source for them. That's a monpoly.

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on how it all works or should work. Those that want to defend the mint, continue to buy at inflated prices with a smile. Those that wish to pressure the mint to charge a fair price, boycott or at least reduce your purchases from the mint.

I, like many P-Puck purchasers, am reducing my purchases. I'm buying one instead of three, so that I'll at least have one for my collection. If they sell fewer, maybe the lower mintage will produce gains to counter the exorbitant price they charge.

 

I really don't see that large of an issue here. The P-puck is a specialty item. The Mint also provides a bullion version of the same puck. If a person doesn't like the price of the specialty puck, he/she should buy the bullion version.

Many companies offer both a premium version and regular version of the same item and they price them accordingly. I don't see why the mint has to be any different. If a person wants a puck based upon the movement of silver prices, he/she should look at the bullion version.

Based on this, I don't see any reason to get my undies in a bunch. The Mint is behaving like a private sector company would.

"You can't always get what you want, but you can find what you need."

 

No, it's really not. Simply because you choose to not collect other forms of bullion does not mean other forms are unavailable. A monopoly exists when an organization or individual controls the market for a specific good. Again, this is by broad definition. Although Apple prevents non-Apple products from using Facetime, that doesn't mean Apple holds a monopoly over Facetime. They do have a competitive advantage stemming from the software, but Skype/Line/Viber are alternative products that consumers could use.

Similarly, the US Mint doesn't have a monopoly on bullion products. Yes, it's legally the only agency that can produce coinage backed by the US Government, but that doesn't mean it has a monopoly over coins or bullion. Again, you choose to collect US coins. US Title 15, Ch 1 would not apply for at least two reasons:

1) The US government would not consider itself a person for the purposes under the Title.

2) There are accepted alternative products available for purchase, even if you opt to not purchase them.

 

Well said!

If memory serves, the pure bullion version of the ASE cannot be purchased directly from the mint unless you are one of the approved master bullion sellers. Those coins do indeed fluctuate with the price of PM's.

The versions the layman can purchase directly from the mint are "premium" offerings, thus they don't need to follow the price of PM's. Do I think they should lower the price of both the proof and burnished ASE's, the simple answer is yes. But they will likely do it for 2015 to protect themselves, rather than lower the 2014 price and have all the collectors complain.

 

It was time ten years ago

 

31 US Code 5112 dictates the issue price. 31 USC 5116 dictates how the Secretary buys and sells Gold and silver.

 

Have to operate like everyone else? HAVE to sell at lower prices like everyone else? I did not know there was a rule out there that forced any company to sell products at a certain price. Some companies have not lowered prices much, and they are not selling as many products as those who HAVE lowered prices. The mint can do what they want. Don't like it? Don't buy it.