Today's eBay "narrow audience" award...

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by -jeffB, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    ...goes to this listing, which will be of interest only to those who want to collect proof Trade dollars from 1873 to 1883... and put them into an old-fashioned cardboard-and-plastic-slider album page with rusted staples.

    1873-1883 TRADE DOLLAR Designed for proofs only 12 opening 2 Meghrig boards

    I do think my engraved and holed 1878 proof would be a perfect fit for a holder like this, but now that I've had it authenticated and slabbed, I'm not eager to crack it out. And I'm not sure I'm ready to continue a damaged-trade-dollar-proof set.

    But my very favorite part of this listing: there are not just one, but two available!

    Anybody ever come across one of these that's actually populated with rare proof-only issues? Now, that would be quite the estate find...
     
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  3. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    longnine009 likes this.
  4. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yeah, this seller seems to have quite a selection of old albums.

    But when I think of all those years of absurdly rare coins being pressed into albums, or having plastic slides move back and forth across them... well, it's easy to see why @GDJMSP says that 80% of raw coins out there are problem coins. :(
     
  5. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's not just me who says it Jeff, nor was I the one to come up with it. On the contrary, I merely repeat what those who know coins far better than I do say.
     
  7. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Id buy it, but there is no hole for the 1885 and the 1884 isn't labeled.

    Just to get you slab or nothing guys all hopped up, I have several proof trade dollars in albums and they have been there for many years.
     
  8. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    What gives with the new avatar Doug?
    image.jpg
     
    xGAJx likes this.
  9. ziggy9

    ziggy9 *NEC SPERNO NEC TIMEO*

    a change of pace for Halloween? :)
     
    fred13 likes this.
  10. RabidRick

    RabidRick Sardonic Devil's Advocate

    I don't think the plastic will do much damage. Besides, the coin is recessed in the album if you do it right. But plastic rubbing against metal won't do a lot unless it's to some absurd and constant amount.

    Coins roll around in the mylar and PVC flips, too. Not even the mylar ones cause damage but they are more expensive and the plastic itself get scratched easily, which is why dealers use the PVC.

    You need something else to actually displace the metal (like a Dremmel tool).
     
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yup, I'm in disguise. It's so I can sneak up on you guys :D
     
  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    How else is he "gonna get you".
     
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I... what?

    First, the problem isn't necessarily the slides themselves, but grit that they drag along between themselves and the coins.

    Second, are you really suggesting that it takes something like a Dremel tool to displace metal? I hope that belief doesn't lead you to start wiping all your proofs with a nice, soft tissue...
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    shhhhhhhhhhh !
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I have to reiterate what Jeff said, none of the above quote is true. The slides in albums will absolutely scratch coins, even without any grit on the coin or plastic. A coin sliding around inside a flip, PVC or mylar, will absolutely cause wear on the high points. And yes, dealers do use PVC flips for short term storage because they are cheaper, but also because the sharp edges of mylar flips scratch coins when the coin is put into or taken out of the flip, and because they cause even more wear on the high points than the PVC flips do.
     
  16. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    I do not have a problem with anyone who wants to buy one of these albums and put their coins in them. Of course I understand eventually you will cause wear on the coins - but hey, they are your coins and you can do with them what you want. Personally I like albums - I have several and at least 1 or 2 completed albums. One even has AU/MS(low MS) coins in it. Probably the average coin in my albums is in the VF range - thinking more of the large cents and wheat cents.
     
  17. RabidRick

    RabidRick Sardonic Devil's Advocate

    Really? Wow, I learn something new every day.

    Luckily, my albums are all circulated. The proofs and UNC's I have are slabbed.

    I had read somewhere that the Mylar flips won't hurt the coins and dealers don't use them because the HOLDERS themselves get scratched.

    But thanks for this info. I'll keep this in mind ;3

    EDIT: PVC does damage though. This is why I was told to use mylars; the PVC can react with silver and produce ugly effects. Are you saying dealers chose these despite this fact, or are they usually keeping them for only a short period of time?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That is not correct. Even PCGS describes the wear that flips, whether PVC or mylar, can impart to coins. They also describe the scratches that mylar flips are known to impart to coins when the coins are put into or taken out the mylar flips.

    This is not new knowledge, it has been known for many years.


    Yes the PVC in the soft flips can harm coins. But that only happens when the the PVC plaseticizers (the softening agents) begin to break down. And it takes time for that to happen. It might take a few months or even longer before the softening agents begin to break down. So there is no harm in using the soft flips for a short time.

    Dealers, and knowledgeable collectors know this. They also know that the soft flips cause less wear damage to the coins inside the mylar flips, and they also know that the soft flips are much cheaper to buy than the mylar flips are. Those things combined are why dealers and knowledgeable collectors use the soft flips, but only for short periods of time. They will never use them for long term storage.
     
  19. bdunnse

    bdunnse Who dat?

    But can't the softening agents breakdown while sitting in the warehouse, on the shelf at a store, or in your desk drawer in the time before an actual coin is put in the holder? How long have they been on the shelf before actually being used - an unknown variable for the most part :D.
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yeah, it's an unknown. But I can tell you this. I've been collecting coins since before the first plastic flip was sold and I never once had one be a problem. But then I never used one for long term storage.

    Now that is not to say that the PVC flips do not cause problems, they absolutely do. But time is the issue. I don't know for sure, and I don't think anybody else does either, but I suspect that it takes a couple of years before the softening agents begin breaking down. And no business that has inventory sit on their shelf for a couple of years is going to stay in business.

    The problem with the PVC flips was the collectors who chose to use them for long term storage. Buy a coin in one and just leave it there for several years or even decades. Dealers don't keep coins in their inventory for several years, one way or another they sell them, at a loss if they have to just to get rid of them. So it was not the dealers keeping the coins in the soft flips, it was the collectors. But then in the beginning they just didn't know what would happen.

    You have to remember, prior to 1995, and really 1998, the internet didn't exist, not like we know it today. So people didn't find out about things for years, sometimes many years. Before the internet they either had to read it in a magazine, a book, or hear it from somebody face to face. And just like today, just because somebody says something, few people ever believe it. They will swear with their dying breath that it isn't so because they haven't seen it or experienced it themselves. So even though they were told, they chose not to believe it, until it was too late and they found out the hard way.
     
  21. bdunnse

    bdunnse Who dat?

    I get it. You don't know how long it takes. ;)

    Might take just a few days given the right conditions on a warehouse shelf.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
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