What to collect or invest for your future?

Interested in the members in the FORUM thoughts as prices rise we need guidence? What are your views - here are a few of mine

Jeff
www.petitioncrown.com
https://www.facebook.com/petitioncrowncoin

None of us has a crystal ball.

We have specific guide lines that have stood the test of time at least from Augustus Caesar.

What coins you may ask? Think, consider, is it different from Warren Buffet who backs the tortoise, not the hare; he consistently focuses on long-term business value.

Let us list the priority:-
Quality of each individual piece
Coins are miniature works of ART, look at them this way
Rarity that is proven as we read and write this article
Coins with a story
Coins that are linked to history

Ouch - “caveat emptor” buyer beware. Do your due diligence and choose a reputable dealer who understand what your expectations are today.

Try not to go down this path:-
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28013148

Regards
Jeff

 

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high grade key dates. Regardless, coins are a bad investment anyways.

 

I collect coins for their numismatic and historical interest. Retirement and mutual funds are investments.

 

When I started collecting it was a hobby and it still is today. There is a difference on both sides of the 'pond'. In the UK we collect to create a collection over say 15+ years or a whole life time. In the USA the hobby has become very robust & sophisticated were you build collections based on the 'packaged' encased and the pricing is very well organized and you sell quicker and move on to another series.

Prices in the UK say over the last 20 years have shown a compound increase of +/- 12%, maybe not as good as some individual stocks but as an individual we are in charge of our own destiny.

 

Firstly you are correct, during the last 15 years prices have risen and therefore the hobby has taken a turn for the worse making it more expensive to aquire material.

During the period were the internet digital photography, on-line bidding, the world has become a place without borders.

The demand for material is outstripping at present the supply. The fear of governments continuing to print more ‘FIAT’ money continues. This creates the possibly of inflation, the fear of stag-flation and those that have money seeing government finding new ways to tax and reduce individual wealth +++

Regards

Jeff
www.petitioncrown.com
https://www.facebook.com/petitioncrowncoin

 

I agree with John. I wouldn't invest in anything numismatic. There are better avenues to pursue. However, I would collect (And do) anything older and including the 20th Century. These coins were actually engraved, which allows for more detail to be present, which intern offers excellent eye appeal. There scarcity grows daily. They will be an easy sell in the future. I feel the same about paper currency. My only interest is now in large size notes.

 

What avenues would you persue?
jeff

 

coins...buy what you like. if you are doing it solely for investment you will be very disappointed. dealers never buy coins at retail unless it's a huge rarity they have not seen in a very long time. I get more out of the artistic part of coins. nothing like having history in your hands.

 

Buy quality coins when they are available. I have been collecting coins long enough to have seen periods in which nice quality coins were available reasonably, only to have them disappear from the marketplace and appreciate considerably. Nice VF/XF post reform Tetrarchy used to be available in quantity for $10-20 a coin. Now they are asking $100 for them, if they can be found. Other examples are too numerous to list. I state prices only because it affects my ability to buy more, as I do not have unlimited funds.

So, for my hobby, I look around and try to buy what I can buy today, knowing nice coins do not stay on the market in quantity forever. I agree with others that financial assets are for investing, coins are for your hobby. That does not mean, though, that you cannot put away a few extras of nice coins today for "future hobby use". Trust me, I use this excuse a lot, buying coins I do not collect today and squirrel them away for the future when I might want to collect them.

 

TRUE WORDS SPOKE

r
Jeff

 

Most accurate posts in this thread. Medoraman, you sum it up so neatly.

 

I think coins are not a suitable for investment.

Let us consider that as a rule of thumb, you might have the chance to get a large amount of your money back when keeping the items for at least ten years before reselling depending on the material. When you assume that at every purchase, one third of the retail price goes on the dealers and tax, this would mean a long-term real rise in the value of three percent per year. You would have to wait further five to ten years to achieve compensation of inflation.

As one can see, this is a long-term consideration with many inconsistencies. Whether or not you can use coins as a inflation-hedged investment, heavily depends on the future interest in your specific coin.

 

Knowledge... period.

 

I am smiling as you are so correct - 20 years is a good benchmark, how about 9% compound after all charges and then deduct inflation - we are still ahead. Inflation say in the USA since 1994 on a coin cost $2'000 would now cost $3'200-

 

This is the skill we gain from time - well I hope just a little

jeff

 

If there is an inflation adjusted growth in the coin market of our specific interest, keeping coins long-term will increase our chance to compensate the dealer's profit margin and get back the money when reselling. As an important conclusion, it becomes clear that one should only buy coins one wants to keep in the collection long-term. And I think that this the decisive reason why collectors are tending to be concentrated on quality coins as long as they can afford it.

 

I agree overall, although I would also argue that it is possible to make money in coins in the short term as well (even if you aren't a dealer). I've sold many coins because I've received offers I couldn't refuse, some others which became duplicates, and some were due to shifting interests (moving away from collecting US coins to Ancients caused me to sell my entire US collection).

With no boasting intended, I've done very well with each of these sales, some times surprisingly well. That said, the right coins need to be purchased at the right prices and sold at the right times, all of which require planning, patience, and a degree of luck.

Many people say you shouldn't invest in coins and for the most part, that's wise advice. Buying an aureus isn't like buying shares in Apple. However, and I admit this is just a narrow anecdote, I've personally profited far more selling my duplicate/replaced coins in the last several years than in the equities markets and real estate (and this is during a time where both of those markets have been doing extremely well).

 

Dear Joe,

I agree with you that it might be possible to make money with coins in the short term as well. Nevertheless, since private individuals are lacking the ability or possibility to promote their property's coins, this only happens from time to time and you definitely need lots of good luck.

There is another very important aspect that one should consider when thinking of coins as investment. The market is full of "bad" coins like tooled and repaired coins - not to mention the counterfeits. And when I talk about market, I am thinking rather of sixbid than of ebay.

In your collector life, it is impossible not to get fraud by those "bad" coins a couple of times. When reselling those "bad" coins - be sure you are willing to resell them very quickly once you are recognized that you are duped - , you have to victimize one of your "good" coins to fairly compensate the serious losses you will experience from your bad coins.

The first time I sold coins, I had to victimize a very outstanding Aelius bronze pictured below to get rid of some of my "acetone victims". Fortunately, the coin dealer gave me reasonable money for those coins I hated. Nevertheless, I could not make any profit with the Aelius. I sold it my purchasing price of 2000 EUR and the day, the dealer vended it for double.

 

I'm curious as to why you didn't like this coin. To my inexperienced eye, it looks like a gem. What gives it away as having been "victimized" by acetone?

 

The Aelius is robust towards acetone and a "good" coin.

There used to be some bronzes in my collection that were sealed with something that I call "grease patina" in order to conceal serious problems. Especially coin fairs and the offer of notorious auction houses are full of those prettied coins with their high-gloss patina. Holding one in hand, you will not believe that such a beautiful ancient coin exist.

The fraud will become evident when bathing bronzes in solvents. Looking at the real shape of those coins, will not only make you hate the dealers from whom you bought them but also urge you to get rid of them a s a p. By the way, if I had repainted my "acetone victims", I would have regarded myself as liar. Therefore, I was happy that I just had to victimize my Aelius to fairly compensate the losses from the "acetone victims".

I really do not want to show my "acetone victims" here. This is something that fortunately belongs to the path. Maybe, as an experienced collector, one is supposed to raise a warning finger to the large number of "grease patina" bronzes since I want to prevent young collectors from paying too much dearly. Nevertheless, the market is full of honest and nice bronzes, so let us have a concentrate on them.