Total Insanity At ANA

Yes, buying them outside the show and sending them in does not work. You have to show proof of purchase at the show AND they initial ant put initials of the grading company on it so you can't reuse it for other coins. They are very strict about that.

The clad Kennedy's are coming back with low grades..66, 67, 68. Hardly any 69s. The mint did a bad job on those.

 

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Let me go on the record as saying that against the background of the normal stupidity of meaningless "Early Releases" labels, NGC has taken the stupidity to a new level by designating the "ANA Inaugural Releases" as a special category with a different label. It's not like these coins have serial numbers and there's no indication that they were the first coins minted, either.

If the dealers can get people to pay extra for the colorful piece of paper in the slab, more power to them, but I think it would be best for the hobby if we all boycotted the meaningless labels so that they would eventually sell for the same price as any other packaging of the same coin and this absurdity will stop. If people continue to buy them, they are just enriching the dealers and NGC at their own expense.

 

The above is not a valid excuse for missing out. I have no sympathy for someone using that as an excuse for missing out and blaming the mint for not waiting for their payday.
It's not like they announce these on the release date. They announce the release plenty of time in advance. If you know you want them, start putting money aside early.

 

How appropriate! Actually 2 dealers bought the first four and they plan to sell them on Coin Vault. Very smart, Coin Vault knows how to sell to the biggest suckers.

http://www.coinworld.com/news/first...ld-kennedy-half-dollars-from-los-angeles.html

 

sad but true

 

I was going to make a post today asking if anyone else noticed the quality wasnt too great on these. I received my 2 sets from the mint and it appears that they just grabbed a P and D out of a hopper and threw them in the folder (maybe thats exactly what they did). Also, the folder is built in such a way as to not allow you to take the coin out of its capsule to examine more closely. I'm dissapointed, however, I don't think I'll be returning my PD clad sets.

 

Even the folks at NGC said the class are not good. I returned one I bought at the show yesterday because it had whiteish spots on one of the coins.

However, they also said the golds are struck very nice and I am sure you will see tons of 70s.

 

Ok,

I see a lot of dealer bashing here... I have seen "stopping the collector from buying coins" a couple times while describing this release. To me that kinda feels like a cop out. You could have gotten there way early and stood in line just as easy... Everyone knew these were going to be hot... It's not new news.

Until they go to a true random lottery system for these pieces this is going to continue to happen.

 

I was thinking about this last night and cannot agree more. Especially after reading some articles lately about how coins are produced and stored at the mint before shipment, these labels are completely pointless. A "first produced" type label might have some meaning if the coins were FIFO, but the way they're handled now they're pointless. I could see "first produced" labels somehow indicating an early die state and possibly a more "pristine" coin, but what they're selling now is entirely pointless.

 

Yeah, but that is my problem with all of this stuff Jeff. It isn't about having the money to buy, its about the competition to be in line. Think of all of the collectors who went to the ANA show wanting to buy one of these, but because of all of the hired standins hired by dealers to abuse the system they can't. Think about all of the long term ASE collectors who wanted a 2011 set but couldn't compete with the hundreds or thousands of people hired by dealers to phone in to buy sets not for themselves but for a dealer. That is what is hard to overcome, the people being paid to buy for someone else when that was simply never the intention of these systems the mint put in place to try to assure equal distribution.

Honestly, the only method I can think for the mint to use, if they are not going to make people sign something swearing they are only buying for personal use, is to simply go to their mailing list of longtime customers and only offer an item, (one per customer), to them only. I do think the mint should make something unique, like an off metal cent set, and only offer it to people who have bought direct from the mint for a few years. They need to reward their long time customers. For full disclosure, I would not consider myself eligible for such an offer, so I am not saying this simply out of personal self interest.

 

No disrespect sir, but WOULD collectors had to line up at 5 am if dealers hadn't hired busloads of line standers? How many hundreds of those people in line were hired to stand there? I really respect you and many other dealers here on CT, but I simply have a problem with some other dealers actions in this instance.

Btw, I really hope dealers here do not take my objections as dealer bashing. I am very aware that if not for dealers there literally would be not hobby. Especially before the internet, how the heck was a collector supposed to find those people who happened to have rare coins for sale? Answer would have been they wouldn't. Dealers literally allow this hobby to happen, to grow, and in many instances dealers have been some of our greatest researchers, authors, and added immensely to this hobby. So this really isn't about dealer bashing, its simply venting at a few dealers who hire others to intentionally bypass rules put in place limiting their orders in order to try to allow individual collectors to buy direct from the mint. I simply believe that is immoral to intentionally bypass these rules.

 

I see the point... But my point is that this is a perfect example of capitalism at work. I sure didn't stand in line, nor did I pay anyone to stand in line. I ordered my pieces on the website... Like the normal folks (the real collectors) who could care less about a label. I would be willing to bet that there weren't too many "collectors" in that line anyways.. Even the independent guys standing there were most likely looking for the flip. I'd almost be willing to bet that less than 10% of the coins sold at the show still reside in the hands of the original purchaser.

 

Maybe they were, but maybe others wanted a long lasting momento of the ANA show. Point is that because a few overtly abused the system many of those people now CANNOT have that momento. How many disappointed individual collectors does there need to be? The mint had a one coin per customer rule specifically because they wanted as many collectors as possible to be able to buy in person at the show. Some dealers wanted more money, so they CHOSE to screw over hundreds of collectors and HIRE people specifically so THEY can make more money, not giving one thought to who they were screwing over. At least in my opinion. Yeah, maybe some just wanted to buy and flip. Even then, they were within their rights to do so since they were buying the coin FOR THEMSELVES. They were not some day laborer being paid $80 by some immoral dealer who simply wishes to screw over the entire population of the ANA show in order to be able to buy 100 coins himself.

Again, sorry for the rant, and its not an anti-dealer rant, its a "immoral, disgusting, POS, rule busting dealer" rant. If anyone knows which dealers were doing this I would love to know. I have a memory like an elephant, and I will let people in this hobby know for decades what kind of person they are.

 

I honestly didn't read whatever rules were set up by the mint folks. If they had established rules about this that left NO room for interpretation or "end runs" I can see where you would be completely justified. Like I said... I personally wasn't there so I really had little interest in the mint sales at the show.

As for the dealers who bought them... Just give it a week or so and see who has a ton of show released coins on their website for sale.

 

They CAN'T? Tell that to the COLLECTOR who got the first four coins sold. (And who by the way stuffed the line himself because I doubt the other three family members with him were collectors.)

What makes a "longtime customer"? All those "hundreds or thousands" of people the dealers had place orders for them in the past are going to be on the Mints customer list. So they would still get the offer directly from the mint. All that would do is cut out the new collectors who haven't ordered in the past

Do yu have any data about when the first dealer shills started showing up to stand in line? For instance how many of the first 200 were collectors and how many were dealer shills? (How many were collector shills?)

Would you also deny the dealers the right to buy coins from the people who stood in line lest the dealers accumulate a bunch of them for resale?

 

I think you hit the issue on the head. I think the rest of you folks are just dancing around it. The issue is the Mint wanted these released direct to consumers. What other rationale is there for the aforesaid limit? But these unscrupulous dealers are trying to get around that limit, they're trying to corner the market. And that's what sucks. The Mint ought to keep minting these and keep releasing them direct to consumers, while this demand is still hot. Increase the supply. That'll fix these schemers quicker than anything.

 

I'm not sure whether I agree with your premise or not. See, the Mint is releasing these direct to the "consumer" -- up to five per household, from the convenience of your Web browser, to be delivered to your door. All the screaming about lines, street people and whatnot just applies to the ANA show, and to the TPGs that are working to create a perception of exclusivity.

I haven't heard anything about dealers recruiting street people to camp on the Mint's Web site and fill up the online queue...?

The broader market for these coins appears not to be cornerable, especially if they're mint-to-demand. Sure, the dealers want in on the early-release label action; so do collectors, apparently, but perhaps not enough to hire stand-ins off the streets. (Remember, though, that first person in line, who brought three of his friends/family along to buy for him.) Trying to take advantage of the silly label-chasing frenzy doesn't amount to "cornering the market", though -- just profit-seeking.

 

If they really cared about that the solution might be to set an ordering period with no mintage limit and not ship them until after the ordering period ends and ALL of the coins have been produced. Then ship them out all at once. Everyone who wants one can get one, and the dealers don't get a big jump on the collectors in receiving them. (And ALL of them would be eligible to be submitted for first strike/release.) And if they sell them at a show, make it just that a sale with delivery with the rest of the coins.

 

I stand corrected, then. Personally, I'm not in the market for this product, Jeff, anyway, and it probably shows.