Another Bay Bridge Specimen, is it original or cleaned?

The coin has a somewhat polished look throughout and also the color looks very different (a dull silvery white) on the highest points of the bear. Interestingly the other Bay Bridge specimen I showed recently looks a lot more obvious than this one in that it was cleaned. I really had to carefully analyze this coin to know what I should do. I did a small submission to SEGS and this time I rejected two specimens given their questionable looks.

Here is an example (in my opinion) of a problem free gradable AU specimen that I did submit: It would be interesting if this was a cleaned coin too however based on its looks I would more bet against it than for it being the case. I would estimate this one comes back AU-53, maybe AU-55 if the graders are in a good mood that day. Although this is a highly tarnished specimen, it doesn't have the "washed out" look of the other coin I pictured at the beginning of this posting.

 

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The rim issues de-grade the coin more than the possible cleaning would IMO.

 

That's an interesting perspective and one that is quite valid. I would agree totally based on your comment if the rim issues are even more severely beat up than the first photographs shown in this posting.

 

I'm on the same page as you...however, this appears to be a scanned image and it seems like scanned images typically kill the luster. I wonder how it looks in hand.

 

I use cotton gloves when I'm placing my bullion coins in my Dansco, just so I don't put fingerprints on the obverse when pressing them in the slot. I agree with the loss of dexterity.

 

That's another interesting statement you've made but I'm not sure I totally agree with you on it (yet). From my experience it's perfectly normal for AU and even UNC coins to have no luster left at all. As an example, some totally brown coppers can be high mint state (such as MS-66 or MS-67 grade). The reason is the lack of wear, hits and scuffs. That in combination with exceptional strike and eye appeal can easily make a high grade brown copper specimen. I believe the same can be true for silver coins. Once they oxidize long enough all the luster can be replaced with a grey(ish) covering, or taken a step further in the process will also have partial green on the surface but only in severe cases and may eventually fall into the category of "environmental damage".

 

You have a point here as the coin looks at least a bit more attractive in hand.

 

The cotton too is an issue as it may give off fibers onto the coin or could cause minor hairlines when held should the fingers make their way not intending but off the specimen's edge.

 

It is true that toning can hide the luster...and this is especially true of copper coins (as in a brown copper coin). However, the toning evident on this coin is not nearly enough to cover the luster completely. This coin SHOULD have decent luster to be a problem free AU in hand. If not, it has likely been over-dipped.

 

So what do you think? XF-45 or XF-40? I would mind it coming back that as those grades are lower population. I think the better reverse detail though will prevent it coming back XF. I would be surprised if it was only XF after evaluation at SEGS.

 

Doubt a dipping ever took place on the last two photos posted because the clock (look for a small circle) on the reverse wouldn't be so well pronounced under those circumstances based on my experience.

 

You very well could be right.

 

I don't think dipping would affect that. If the luster as shown in this photo is accurate...my thought is the coin has been over dipped.

 

So would I...SEGS is a lower end TPG and they are well known for over-grading and grading problem coins.

 

Do you know what luster is? Honest question.

 

Believe it or not I think PCGS and NGC are worse these days and overgrade more in fact! I have coins from PCGS and NGC that I know were cleaned based on diagnostics because I bothered to study the coins longer than the graders were able or afforded to. Might you have a photo of a SEGS coin that was given a regular grade but is really a problem coin? I'd like to see it.

 

Sure I know what luster is. There is dark luster which looks smooth but has a deep glow to it. Basically that's what a lot of these MS-66 or 67 BN large cents have. It is luster but not obvious or red luster.

 

You can think whatever you want...that doesn't make it right.

To answer your question, I don't have any SEGS photos on hand because I don't buy coins in their slabs because I have rarely seen an accurately graded coin.