where have all the raw coins gone?

i have never used ebay as still leery about it due to all the scary stories, so my main source of coins have been the major auction firms. its ok to buy the slabbed coins as long as there isn't a premium involved, but i rarely, if ever, see raw coins at auction. even common dates are slabbed. i ran into some at various tables at the indiana state show this year but never seem to see any at auction. where are they all??? thanks for your input.

 

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You have definitely made an interesting observation. Just today, I saw a common 1914 Barber Dime on eBay in an ANACS Good 6 holder!!!! A lot of circulated coins are ending up in holders, especially any coins that may be counterfeited. However, I tend to find a lot of raw 19th century coins and raw Morgan Dollars at estate auctions.

 

Hmmm, Ebayphobia at it's worst One of the biggest weapons you have against getting taken in a bad transaction is knowledge. There are good deals to be had on just about every type of coin struck, but you must learn all you can about the coin series you collect, Weight, Diameter, Varieties, Composition, etc., all must be part of you. Otherwise, the ONE bad auction will somehow burn you and like a pup that's afraid of the gunshot you'll shy away from future legitimate deals... Desirable Raw Coins are still out there.

Knowledge, you biggest weapon...
Ben

 

It's difficult to buy unslabbed coins sight unseen [for me at least]. Even if you think you know your stuff, the photographer might just be a little bit better -- or you could just receive a different coin and be left with that argument on your hands. This is as great for the TPGs as if they planned it all themselves because you almost have to slab a coin to sell it at auction. I wouldn't buy an unslabbed coin without holding it in my hand unless the purchase price was very small. I just don't have the skill to be confident with that approach.

 

my fear of ebay isn't the coins (not a big market in counterfeit common date ms 63/64 morgans and other "widgets")..its paying for one thing and being delivered another. i feel much safer w/ teletrade, bowers, stacks and heritage....i truly don't know the sellers on ebay as well as stories like "hijacked accounts". ect...perhaps if there was more accountability on the sellers from ebay.

 

I've been a member for almost 10 years with over 700 transactions and can count on one hand the number of times somebody tried to pull a Bait-N-Switch. On those occasions I just followed the process's for getting a refund and returning the item. Only one time did I have to initiate Mail-Fraud action. Unfortunately, it does it happen? Yes. Does it happen often? No...

A big reason I use the service has to do with my geographic location in respect to Shops and Shows. I live in the sticks, LOL

Take Care
Ben

 

I had my first ebay experience and purchased my first coin. I was on pins and needles till i got it. It worked out just fine for me.

Like you I was suspect of dealing with these folks that I did not know who in the world they were. The group in coin talk responded to my post much like they did and will with yours. I was given so much good information about the pitfalls and what to look for. Over time i saw examples of tokens , fakes, alter coins, excessively cleaned coins that i really do not have the knowledge or experience to pick up on easily . That is why I went with a PCGS graded coin.

I am very suspect of a relatively expensive coin that has not been certified and slabbed.

 

i didn't intend to make this an ebay thread...i just rarely see raw coins...are you saying they are all on ebay??? why do i never see them at the major auction houses? why is everyone slabbing common date ms63morgans anyway? i miss the feeling of the coin in my hand....

 

In Reno the 4 major coin shops don't have a very good selection of raw coins. They have mainly the common dates and some not so common, but at high the average prices. I just keep stopping by them every two weeks or so to see if they have new ones. I wish I could get down to Sacremanto more often.

 

I find that coin shows have mostly raw coins. There are a number of small and large shows in my area and most of the coins I find are not slabbed. I would say that maybe 10-15% of the coins at these shows are slabbed.

 

I agree with Ben, yes you can get the odd bad trader on Ebay but on the whole they are just like you and I :hug: I have in the region of 1300 + positives from individual sellers over 4000 in total and have only had to leave I think about 5 negs. I dont buy expensive stuff and allways check the seller as best one can, I wont buy from a stock photo unless it is something like a cd cover LOL and I have bought some nice stuff including a few nice raw Morgans :smile

De Orc

 

i guess i'm just getting old!! i was very active collecting as well as lots of buying and selling coins in 1980-1991. i went back to the firms i had used then which are still around (i.e; stacks, steve ivy(heritage), david bowers( bowers and ruddy..or merena... to anr and now stacks). others i used had vanished or merged or sold. however there was simply not a proliferation of slabs and i was able to trust the firm involved. most coins regardless of grades were not slabbed and we graded the coin as the coin....which is what we should do now. i don't understand why the major firms won't handle raw coins. slabbed....not slabbed...reslabbed or super slabbed we couldn't agree on the grade then( or cleaned, or dipped, or natural tone or artificially toned,ect.,ect.) and with everything in slabs, no one can agree on them now....numismatics trudges on . glad to see that with all this technology available, grading services, ect. the beloved hobby hasn't changed!!! it just strikes me as so odd as to why someone would pay $20-$30 to slab a coin thats only worth $50 or $60 at tops. you certainly don't have to pay a premium when you buy it so it seems unnecessary cost. i complain when i have to pay $10 shipping on a coin!!! oh well....i appreciate the info.

 

I will never, ever purchase any raw coins "sight-unseen" ever again, and hence, the reason why many coins are making their way into slabs. Matter of fact...if I do see a raw coin at a show, I immediately take it over to the TPG's so they can offer me their opinion on it...especially if it is a key date.

Many times, the graders at ICG and ANACS saved my behind with comments like, "Nice whiz job...dipped and retoned...added mint mark" and on some occasions, "Nice coin"

The buyer wants to be assured of what they are getting and unless you have a trained eye and know exactly what you are doing, the risk falls all on your shoulders. I read one article where I believe it was Scott Travers who said, "If a key date coin has not been slabbed by now, you really need to find out why?"

I totally agree. Think about this...would you buy a 1909-S VDB 1c or 1916-D Merc unless it was authenticated and certified? Q. David Bowers wrote once that over HALF of the 1916-D Merc dimes he saw raw on one given coin show floor were fakes...mostly with added "D" mint marks!

Look...buyers want to know what they are getting within a grading point (or two) and are willing to pay for that peace of mind. Also, if I have to sell, I want to be able to supply any potential buyer with a list of what I have so I can turn over my collection as quickly and profitably as possible.

 

keys, ect..i most certainly understand. when i bought a saint and liberty's i bought slabbed. also most every morgan i have now is slabbed but its mostly due to availablility. but why so many cheap common date slabbed material? are people that concerned about being able to purchase an ms 63 1881-s morgan?? tho i will say, if they only buy the slabs for the info on them, rather than the coin, it saves learning how to grade.........................................................

 

I only buy slabbed coins on ebay. you cant buy raw coins on ebay. ebay sellers tend to overgrade their coins. Ive discussed grading on this website before, and you folks have always directed me to the grading guide by... i dont know, who ever it is that put out the grading guide, anacs is it? theres got to be a MASS produced mass distributed grading guide put out that dicates how many scratches in the flat areas for each grade, how many scratches in the face; difference between scratch and a gouge, etectera.

 

Slabs are so pointless.....I mean...who wants to turn a coin into a plastic lump of investment ? All the history sort of disappears once this happens....I don't care if a coin is a good VF or a bad XF, it doesn't matter.

JLS

 

i am not trying to be argumentative for slabs one way or another. i am looking at this from a different perspective than some. when i got away from the hobby in early 90's there really weren't slabbed coins, yet somehow, auction companies and coin dealers still bought and sold. collectors collected, ....and still different perceptions on coins grade, cleaned or not, ect. i find myself drawn back into the hobby after maybe 15 yrs and now even tho most everything is slabbed, i still hear the same perceptions voiced about a given coin. ex.."they slabbed it but its obviously cleaned...or its dipped..or its fake tone or its undergraded, or its overgraded" i simply find it absolutely fascinating. grading still remains subjective and in the eye of the beholder. i know a point or 2 isn't much, but it is when they are talking thousands of dollars difference in a grade. what i find really odd is the 1881-S ms 63 morgan example. it seems that paying so much to slab an inexpensive coin would deter people, but they are everywhere. i truly don't intend to be a jerk regarding this subject. i find the transition interesting. perhaps even someday....i will buy a raw coin on ebay!!

 

Cleaned coins.

First of all, I agree with the points just made by GDJSMP.

Now, here is an idea that occurred to me earlier about lightly cleaned coins: It is often said around here "collect what you like" "buy the coin not the slab", etc. And people are usually advised not to expect their coin purchases to turn out to be great investments, because you can't predict where the coin market is going. So, I'm thinking, if a coin was lightly cleaned, and YOU can't tell, and need an "expert" to tell you its cleaned-What is the harm in buying a so-called "problem coin" if YOU like the coin, and are pleased to have it as a part of your collection????? I personally collect purely for pleasure, and I know some of my raw coins are cleaned, and thats fine with me, because you can't tell they're cleaned (most of them anyway). Just a thought.