Getting into Ancients

Hi. I recently bought 10 uncleaned ancient Roman coins on ebay for around 20 bucks. I know they're real because they smell old like a fossil or rock. And they're not rare or anything, as far as I know. I love cleaning away to see the beauty of them. However, I've cleaned a few too much and stripped away patina because I though more detail was underneath. However, it turns out they were probably pretty worn coins to begin with before they were left underground.

I've always avoided ancient coins because I believe there are so many types, they seem expensive in general, and I don't know much about distinguishing real from fake ancients. Can anyone give me some good input on:
- identifying fakes, just the basics I guess
- a good book or two (is the Whitman one good?)
- good place to get them
- cleaning them

 

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So, for your list:

1. Identifying fakes will take a while. Best to stick with dealers we can recommend to you, or have us look at pics before you buy something beforehand. Lower end fakes are not that common.
2. Whitman not really. What kinds fo ancients? If Roman, David Sear's Roman coins and their values 1988 edition is a good value if you can buy it for less than $50. Ancients are so huge you really need to narrow it down for us. A good website to start is Doug Smith's website:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/
Any questions just ask Doug, he is a great poster here.
3. Lots of places really. Ebay is not bad at all. Depends on what you want.
4. Huge subject. Generally you are much better to buy cleaned coins, since most uncleaned coins are really slugs sold to suckers. You will be money ahead to only buy a coin already cleaned that you like and wish to keep forever.

Hope that helps.

 

I am a fan of Wayne Sayles' books. I'd recommend his "Ancient Coin Collecting, Volume I," which is a general, but informative, introduction to the hobby, and "Ancient Coin Collecting III: The Roman World - Politics and Propaganda." Both are readily available at Amazon and other sites.

The Roman Attribution Toolkit at http://www.romancoin.info/ may be of some use to you down the line.

Best wishes.

 

When you decide to buy a specific coin, check it against the known fakes databases:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/index.php
http://forgerynetwork.com/

Med-man has the right of it. Buying uncleaned coins for me always turned out to be slugs or only slightly better.

 

Thanks so much. Very good info. I guess the ancients I'm interested in are Roman, are 100 or 200 bc to 400 or 500 AD. I don't like the look of those cup coins I see on ebay, which I think are Byzantine or something. Nor do I like or know about medieval coinage, or ancient Greek coinage. That makes sense, what you said about buying uncleaned coins. Sometimes you can tell some of them have good details underneath the dirt, but most of them probably turn out to be losers. However, there's something quite fun about cleaning them and uncovering whatever's left behind through the ages.

 

Interesting. I'll look into those books. Thanks for the info and kind wishes.

 

Here is a website for beginners:
http://esty.ancients.info/numis/
It will get you off the ground. Among many other things, it also has book recommendations (Some books may be in your local public and university libraries.) Ask us further questions and we will be glad to help.

 

=> Doug, Doug, Doug!! ... it's always about Doug!! (Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!!)

 

I agree with most (maybe all?) of the above but have a couple points.

Ask. Some of us here like to answer questions. Sometimes we learn something researching answers to others' questions. Relatively few jerks that make fun of questions hang around this place so ask.

I like books and have more in my attic than on my shelves because there is no room for the ones I really could have written or the ones that I will never be able to understand because they are over my head. While I have two books coming in the mail next week, I still suggest you (beginners) don't be too quick to spend too much on books until you have read and are ready to be tested on the free websites mentioned above. You will want some books but try to figure out what you want them to cover before you start throwing money at them. 'Everything' is not an answer. The 'Everything You Every Could Possibly Want to Know About Ancient Coins' book has not been written and would weight about as much as a house. Try to narrow it down. "Roman only", you say? Now we are down to the weight of a car. Do I exaggerate? Fact: The more you learn about this subject, the more you realize you do not know so I am a great deal dumber now than I was 50 years ago when I knew everything I knew I should know.

Coins: There are about a million types and variations of ancient coins of which 90% are either rare, expensive or so rarely seen in the market that wanting them is frustrating. That leaves the 10% or 100,000 types to collect. I can deal with that. Am I exaggerating? Not really. I am just making up numbers to make the point that you won't be getting a complete set. Are my numbers far off? I don't think so but I have better things to do than count the stars in the sky.

Welcome.

Steve always wanted to be Alice's favorite.

 

Op, yes I should have also linked you Mr. Esty's wonderful site. I have been learning from him, (though he probably didn't know it), from the yahoo group days. We are indeed fortunate to have him here with us.

 

Amazingly, I think I usually use ERIC-II far more than any of my other books (including all of my hero's books => 8 David Sear books ... *awkward sigh*)

Hey, don't get me wrong => I use both "regularly", but I do find the ERIC II book nice for merely thumbing-through and finding-out the dates of each of the "207" rulers (and/or mates, etc) ... plus, it has nice colour photos of most of the coins ... oh, and yes , it does have that whole RIC thingy too, right? (overall, that book has been worth the crazy capital purchase price!!)

=> ahahaha => but, I'm pretty sure that Mike Brady will have some differing comments?

 

Long timers here know I posted a long and not wholly positive review of ERIC II so I won't say it here. I will say that I probably would buy a copy of ERIC II that ONLY had the introductions, chapter headings, ranking lists etc. but left out the seemingly neverending pages of lists of coded coins that make the book the heaviest thing you can imagine. If we could have that edit and photos of the other sides of all the coins, I could recommend the book with only a few quibbles.

 

I totally agree that the neverending pages do make the book a bit cumbersome, but I guess that's what happens when those pages are actually lists categorizing the multiple Roman coin types , right?

Curious => has "ERIC III" already been released ... if so, has there already been any/many reviews?

 

Ras himself once said something to the effect that I was the only person out there who did book reviews. Most reviews I read strike me as written by someone at the publishers and not necessarily someone who had actually read the book. I was not asked to review ERIC III and have no idea how it differs. I am not the target market and am a little curious how it changed but not curious enough to buy it unseen.

 

http://dirtyoldbooks.com/eric3/
According to the progress page, ERIC III was not finished let alone released. As of June 27, 2014 approximately 11.3% of the book is ready. After the book is finished, the process of getting it printed and shipped from the printer by slow boat will take a while. To me 2020 would be a reasonable date but I'm sure Ras will beat that by quite a bit. He is a hard worker.

 

Well this is the first time I've encountered someone authenticating coins by smell. There might be something to it, lol.

Since you're interested in Roman coins, the Late Roman Bronzes are a good place to start, and collecting attractive LRB's won't set you back any more than collecting higher-grade US classic coins. Coins of the Constantinian Dynasty are a great place to get your feet wet.

Here's a coin of Constantine I that I paid around $60 for...

Constantine I
AE Follis, 19.5mm, 3.61g; Trier mint: 322-3
Obv.: CONSTAN-TINVS AVG; helmeted, cuirassed bust right.
Rev.: BEATA TRAN-QVILLITAS; Globe set on altar inscribed VO/TIS/XX, above, three stars // dot PTR dot.
Reference: RIC VII Trier 368 (p. 197)
Notes: ex-Langtoft hoard.

 

I would reiterate this advice, especially with the amount of excellent free information on ancient coins that you can find on the Internet. If you take a few weeks searching and reading all this information, you may find that your interests are broadened or narrowed from the area you currently find interesting (Roman coins) and can use this to focus your book and coin purchasing on items you'll keep for a long time. (Personally, when I first started collecting ancient coins about seven years ago, I found Doug's site http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/ to be particularly enjoyable to read even though I didn't fully understand everything I was reading at that time.)

As for buying uncleaned ancient coins, Cointalk is especially useful since there have been a number of threads about the ins-and-outs of cleaning coins, with lots of pictures included. Spending some time searching through these threads will be immensely helpful in your decision about whether or not to keep purchasing and cleaning these coins vs. simply purchasing coins that fit your collecting interests.

Good luck!

 

You can not believe how honored I am by this post. Ides and I collect the opposite ends of the spectrum with his cheap coins outranking my best. His words suggest than we actually do share a hobby. That he could find interest in my site makes me feel good.

 

Doug, there's over 5,000 results on a google search just for "http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/ and 254,000 for your old site.

edit: maybe time to write a book

 

Very nice, easy to use site. I will definitely read it. Thank you!