Another suspect forgery of Cherronesos hemidrachm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chersonesos-Thrace-386-338-BC-silver-Hemidrachm-UNIQUE-STYLE-/331178189403

Seller wants $475!!! Ridiculous even if it was genuine.

Again here is the link comparing to known Bulgarian forgeries:
http://oldestcoins.reidgold.com/cherronesos_bulgaria.html

 

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It's a shame there are people who take advantage of unsuspecting coin enthusiasts for financial gain. I went to a local coin shop and asked if he sold ancients and the gentleman told me that he quit due to the risk of forgeries and their prominence in the market. There are 3 coin shops in the city I live and none deal in ancients.

 

The seller is actually a VCoins dealer but you won't find all of his coins listed on VCoins as there is a code of ethics for selling there. There have been various discussions about fakes having been sold through this ebay account and its previous incarnation. The majority of previous complaints have been about Conders.

 

The Vcoins code of ethics refers not only to the dealers activities on Vcoins site, but also their behaviour in general, which could bring the dealer and Vcoins into disrepute. This would mean that if they are selling fakes on another site, the owners of Vcoins could have 'words'. Just out of interest, because it is always useful......what specifically leads the OP to their conclusion/suspicion that the coin is fake.

 

I think that the fact that the obverse die is a die match to this example from Reid's site is fairly conclusive evidence.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141-Ancient...id=100033&prg=9790&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=161286605561
Another suspect fake...this one is questionable because of the exaggerated long neck and paw of the lion. It resembles forgeries of the Lipanoff studio. This link explains more
http://rg.ancients.info/lion/cherronesos.html

 

I've been watching eBay for awhile looking at cherronesos. It is alarming how frequently these questionable cherronesos coins come to market.

 

This is indeed the shame of the hobby. I can not disagree with a small, general dealer shying away from ancients. I do not believe that the problem of fakes is any worse with other coins but the education needed to protect ones shop and reputation is greater than that needed to buy and sell bullion silver and Lincoln cents. I'm not sure how I would react were I in their shoes. Would I sell shipwreck gold or something similar that I know nothing about? Would I learn to separate MS66 Morgans from MS67? Would I only sell slabs? Bad thought!

We are repeatedly told that it is horridly incorrect to judge people by groups. In coins, this means that we can not lump together as bad or good all dealers just because they sell from a shopfront, from eBay or if they issue glossy catalogs and hold big auctions at conventions. While I wish there were a certification I felt comfortable trusting, we are now at a position where we must each select individual dealers we trust or learn enough about the subject to protect us (just a little?) as we risk purchases. I bought a Cherronesos at the last show I attended but not without a little concern just like that I have with a half dozen other types that have made the news as subjects of the fakers. Part of me wonders why I don't just stay away from these types but I know that the fakers are out there making yet another temptation. I just hope it is not a coin I still have on my want list.

 

I have been researching the cherronesos for awhile now and spot (what i believe) are alot of fakes on ebay. I dont post every fake i spot on ebay but i spot at least one a week it seems, and this week it was two. I know nothing about fakes of other coin types and wonder if they are as prevalent on ebay as the cherronesos forgeries.

 

I'm Jason Failla and run the Failla Numis EBay shop. What I see here is quite unfair. Dealers are not all knowing- not even the most reputable. I had no idea the obv die is a known forgery. In fact this coin has tricked other experts and was consigned to le by a prominent and well known collector. The price is absolutely fair if this coin were real. Also - the insinuation that I sell fake Conder tokens is also quite unfair. It seems some folks are hiding behind their computers and I welcome anyone to call me to discuss a single exams of a fake Conder token (or ancient coin for that matter). Ancient forgeries of high quality are sometimes difficult even for experts to spot. This is a reality that some of you pointing the finger should try and understand before condemning others. Apparently this chersonesos is a forgery- I have removed it and will be giving it back to the owner. A mistake is not an example of dishonesty. I also resent the insinuation that it was posted on eBay and not vcoins because of their ethics policy. I have my own internal ethics policy that is independent of vcoins. Please people - act mature- there simply aren't any all-knowing dealers - if this is a mistake - all apologies. In all my years in business I have only had one coin returned as a verifiable forgery. That's as good as any dealer on the planet.

Jason Failla
978 375 0778

 

welcome Jason ... I agree with your comments

=> hey man, hang around for a bit and get to know your clients ...

... I'm just sayin'

Cheers dawg

 

I don't want clients who are quick to condemn.

 

well played, seller

 

Jason: This coin would have fooled me (but perhaps that is not so hard to do since I have made a few mistakes in buying Ancients). I know your name only from buying coins, but, to my knowledge, your reputation is good. The posters on CT are generally good coin collectors who find it harder and harder to distinguish authenticity. And the ire represented in this thread is due to the fakers, not the honest dealers. I hope you stick around. We have some very knowledgeable posters (not me), but the more the merrier. As Steve said, get to know these potential clients and they in turn will get to know you. A win-win in my estimation.

 

Jason,
Nice to meet u and I apologize for any bad blood I may have stirred up in writing this post. I meant it in no way to chastise u or ur business. Like bing said, the comments regarding the prominence of fakes on eBay are geared toward the forgers and not the dealers. Of course reputable dealers will at one time or another come across a fake and that's perfectly fine, especially the way u handled the situation by removing the coin from auction. I do stick by my opinion that the coin type, regardless of authenticity is overpriced, but again, I mean u no insult, and I'm sure ur much more knowledgeable and experienced than I ...just my personal opinion. Thank u for bringing to light ur concerns on the matter from a dealers standpoint, and welcome to the forum Jason.

 

Yes I hear you- I was responding to what seems unchecked condemnation of my business and reputation which isn't right. If a coin is in question- it should be discussed - but assumptions about the seller should not be aired freely unless it's clearly a pattern. What I found unfair about this thread is the insinuations that this is a pattern-

 

Well there does seem to be a huge price gap between very high end coins and very nice coins- it's the sign of the times- I was more offended by the insinuation that my conder tokens are fakes- and the idea that I'm purposely selling junk coins. I sell pretty nice stuff- but not the nicest. Thanks for the more reasonable words-

 

ok

 

*

 

Perhaps a not the most diplomatic response. Ironic though.