eBay, safety, return policy, and a counterfeit

I've received yet another counterfeit Barber -- this time, an 1896 quarter whose "bad photo" hinted that it might be AU. I won it at $37.99 shipped.

When I received it, my first reaction was "oh, geeze, this looks just like that fake Barber half from a couple of weeks ago." Not exactly, mind you, but the same odd color and dully lusterless finish. But I had a lot going on, and I set it aside for closer examination later.

Tonight, I weighed and imaged it. The weight is close -- 6.17 g, on a scale that gives 6.21 to 6.30 g for a few silver proof ATB quarters. But take a look at these images:



"Highlights" include the date, the motto, the dimpled denticles at 8:00 and 10:00 obverse, the reverse stars, the eagle's right wing (to your left)... I could go on, but you get the picture.

So, I went to open a "Not as Described" case, reporting it as a counterfeit. Good news, according to eBay: "You're within seller return window."

But I'm not sure I want to simply return the coin to the seller: the seller's return policy includes a restocking fee, I'd have to return it at my expense, and after reviewing the seller's other recently-sold coins I'm not so sure this is the only fake.

Of course, there's no way now for me to direct-report the auction. I'm thinking my best bet is to wait a day or so for the return window to close, and then file the dispute; it rubs me the wrong way to do that, but it rubs worse to just let the seller handle this as a "buyer changed his mind" return.

Thoughts? Opinions? Catcalls?

 

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That is a very honorable thing to do, if you don't begin the war against this scammer how many others are going to be taken before someone does.
What an ugly Quarter though, lol, at least it's easier to spot as a fake than the last one But I wouldn't have guessed the Barber series was so popular with counterfeiters......

 

In my experience with a 1912-S Liberty nickel I bought that was counterfeit I called eBay as soon as I opened the package and told them it was a fake. I was issued a refund and they told me I didn't need to return the coins.

That was my only experience with a fake coin on eBay.

 

I didn't think of actually calling eBay about it. Maybe that's the best approach.

 

That's what I would do. Especially since the seller has a nice little restocking fee scam going on. S/he doesn't lose anything AND would get to sell the coin to someone else who might not be a savvy as you!

 

Well mine was for 2- MS 1912-S Liberty nickels that I paid $1,200 for. I was in for more than $40 so I wasn't going to wait for an automated response.

 

Yes, definitely call eBay. They are trying to do more and I have a feeling that if you can prove it to them, they will shut that guy down. Of course, he will most likely open up another account. But can't hurt to try.

 

When are people going to learn that buying raw coins on SleazeBay is like playing Russian Roulette with an automatic.

Chris

 

Is it just me or does that coin scream die cast fake? I mean look at the horizontal bars on the shield on the reverse. A real coin just doesn't wear that way.

I'd file the complaint with eBay immediately. You'll get your money back and won't have to send the coin back. Make sure you let them know you don't think this is the only fake he's selling.

Look at the seller's other listings and give specific examples. If the other listings are as poor a fake as this one, it shouldn't be too hard.

If the seller is knowingly selling fakes, and pulling a restocking fee scam, then shut him down and shut him down quickly.

 

Sorry, no.

Sometimes I get what I pay for. Sometimes I get a bit less than I pay for -- but rarely, because I bid/BIN very conservatively.

Sometimes, I get something like this. When I do, Buyer Protection has never failed me.

And sometimes I hit home runs. But those are topics for other threads.

If Russian Roulette came with Shooter Protection, guaranteeing to make me whole even if I pulled the trigger on a loaded cylinder -- nah, I still wouldn't play; I hate loud noises. But I'm not about to stop shopping on eBay. Carefully.

 

I'm not confident in my ability to ID fakes from bad photos on arbitrary, unfamiliar issues, so I don't know whether this guy's selling other fakes. But here's one example I'm pretty sure about:

1899-O BARBER 50C - " BETTER DATE" - Hard To Find - #3284



And another:

1911 Barber Silver Half ~ Very Fine VF Conditionn- toned with details



Take a look at his other completed auctions. Note in particular the number of 1875-P twenty-cents he's been selling (two in April, four so far this month). Isn't that an odd thing to "specialize" in -- along with "near gem" Stone Mountain halves (12 so far), and various other odds and ends?

Sure, maybe I'm paranoid, and he's come across one fake Barber quarter in his hoard of totally legit 1875-P (not S) 20c pieces, Stone Mountain halves, and so forth. It does seem to stretch the imagination that nobody's called "fake" yet. But maybe everybody else is assuming "well, his feedback is good, it was an honest mistake, I won't ding his feedback for this".

 

Those are all cast fakes. He probably knows what he's selling.

 

100% fake

 

Not just raw, there are fake slabs also

 

I couldn't help but notice this seller also sold 2 of these.....Hmm...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1883-hawaii...2222225?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item33902d5591

 

And of course, with eBay's new "it's OK if it's fake" policy, counterfeits are running rampant. With the demise of the CCW and the ineffectiveness of the CFE group, I can once again buy all of my unmarked "replicas" unhindered by auction interference.

Now, a reported listing goes to untrained CS representatives that are instructed to NOT remove coin listings for authenticity unless it is admitted that the coin is not genuine in the listing (in other words, the seller says it is genuine, the reporter says it is not, eBay says to not remove such listings).

eBay makes more money when a listing is sold because many buyers will not open cases because they do not discover their coin is fake until it is too late.

 

LOOK for and recognize "Grainy Fields".

While coins can wear down and lose certain details and even have an abundance of hits from circulation, genuine US Mint coins will never have "grainy" fields.

Don't let design details trip you up since it is totally possible to look at something, with a specific intent, and totally NOT see the obvious.

Always check for grainy fields. You'll never miss.

Bad photo? Pass.

Better to lose out than lose your money.

 

I'll just leave this here.

Oh, and this, of course.

 

This is a very bad policy, if you sold a coin and someone thought it was a fake wouldn't you want a chance to re-examine it to make sure?

I read a story about this policy, someone sold a musical instrument (can't remember which one) on ebay for around $2,000. They were an expert in the field and said they were positive it was a legitimate one, not a knockoff. The buyer said it was a counterfeit and Ebay told them they should destroy it. So a nice $2,000 instrument that was probably legitimate was destroyed.

 

Yeah, the "knockoff" violin was a really sad story.

I'm conflicted about the "don't return counterfeits" policy. On the one hand, the seller has already demonstrated willingness to sell a counterfeit item, knowingly or unknowingly, and "giving them a chance to try again" seems like a bad thing. On the other hand, the buyer hasn't demonstrated anything (except the ability to identify a fake), and so giving them a chance to sell the coin on seems like a bad thing.

It would be great if eBay required return to a third-party authenticator, which would then make a determination of authenticity, destroy fakes or turn them over to authorities, and return authentic coins to either the buyer or seller (not sure which would be more appropriate), apportioning costs somehow among the contesting parties. I have no idea how the details would work, though, and setting up such a facility for all the different fake-prone categories eBay covers would probably result in a bureaucracy bigger than eBay itself, prone to its own abuses and failures.

I handle it by making my own judgement about the seller's intent. In some cases, it's clear that the seller is knowingly selling fakes, and I'm happy to hang them out to dry with eBay's help. In other cases, it's not at all clear to me, and I leave eBay out of the loop. If I found myself in a situation where eBay told me not to return the coin, but I thought the seller had acted in good faith, I'd return the fake at my own expense anyhow.

Of course, I'm far from infallible. I might falsely conclude that an unsuspecting seller is acting in bad faith, or I might falsely conclude that a scammer is acting in good faith. All I can do, like anyone, is try my best.