Love this coin. Hope it grades!

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by C-B-D, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Yes, look at the nose, mouth, lips areas. It looks as if someone borrowed a few of your instruments and did some work to sharpen the edge of the devices, where it meets the fields. Kind of like a root planing and scaling for coins. :)
     
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  3. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    You know...that makes total sense. :D
     
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  4. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Having had the pleasure of that procedure, and getting another one in two weeks, I understand how the coin feels. lol :)
     
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  5. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Here is a question though...in those areas that appear to have work done to them. I would think they would slightly work the fields to make the bust appear a little stronger. However, that area of the field (next to the chin) is quite dark and toned. I would think it would if it had been worked on...it would be less toned than the rest of the field. I agree that this area looks altered...but what am I missing?
     
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  6. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I think that they did work the fields as well. There was some smoothing done on the upper right field, and that, combined with the use of one of your tartar picks (know them well), made the fields look smooth, and the devices more contrasty. Tooling of early Silver coins is quite common, and I believe you to be right about the fields being overly smooth. Look at the extremely angular nose and chin....more so than normal. The hair where it meets the left hand field also looks worked.
     
  7. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    OK...but then my question is, why would those tooled areas appear more toned? I would think they would be less toned since that metal was more recently exposed.
     
  8. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    My guess is that this work was done 40-50 years ago and tone has accumulated in that area. Tooling was done in the 1960s a lot.
     
  9. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    OK, that makes sense. Was tooling considered a good thing back then...like cleaning?
     
  10. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Tooling was more drastic than cleaning. It was done to make coins more marketable. It was coin doctoring. Cleaning was considered less drastic than tooling, although both are "no grade" devaluations of at least 50% nowadays.
     
  11. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    I know that today it makes coins ungradable. But, I also know there was an era when harsh cleaning was consider acceptable (and even a good thing). Was the same true of tooling?
     
  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Would you love it any less if it didn't grade? If so then don't send it in and stay in love.
     
  13. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Just heard from PCGS. VF details cleaned. :(
     
  14. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    I was wondering about the fields being smoothed upon a second look could be from an old cleaning tho is definitely dipped and retoned. At least
     
  15. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Bummer..sorry to hear that.
     
  16. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Well, at least they didn't call it tooled. "cleaned " is not always the kiss of death. If you don't see patches of hairlines with a point source light it might grade, eventually. The area that bothered me is the field under LIB. I still think that is a very nice looking DBH!
     
  17. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    You got off easy. The obverse is highly tooled and smoothed. Look at the wide gutters surrounding the outline of the face and hair, and the overly-sharp detail within the hair itself. Frankly, I'm shocked PCGS only mentioned the cleaning.
     
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The coin might have been tooled too. It is not uncommon for a given problem coin to have more than 1 kind of problem. But typically, the TPGs only put 1 problem on the label.

    The point is, when you look at a coin in a problem coin slab, don't necessarily assume that is the only problem the coin has.
     
  19. treylxapi47

    treylxapi47 Well-Known Member Dealer

    So is that what 'tooled' means?

    To sharpen the edges of devices to enhance the details and the contrast of the coin?
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Pretty much. In simple terms it means that the coin was carved, with tools, to make the design appear to have suffered less from wear. In other words, to make the coin appear to be a higher grade than it really is.
     
  21. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Wouldn't they want to list the most severe problem if they are only going to list one? It seems to me (based on the photos of course)...that the tooling is the bigger issue on this piece. But, perhaps I am wrong.

    I suppose it doesn't really matter. A problem coin is a problem coin.
     
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