Dipped or Details Coins Pre 1934 + Flow Lines

Regarding the us of MS70 on copper, I am convinced that yes it does cause a lot of copper coins to turn blue or a shade of blue. Does it cause every single one to turn blue ? No, it does happen far more often than not. However, using MS70 on gold,silver or clad coins can work wonders on the coin and it has no ill effects on them.

MS70 is a cleaner, it contains caustic soda (says so right on the bottle) -



- so even though it says it's safe to use on copper, since copper is so reactive and based on what I have seen with my own eyes and what many others who I trust have said, I would never recommend using it on copper.

As for what you call flow lines, I assume you are talking about luster. I say that because there two different kinds of flow lines than can appear on coins - those that create luster from the metal flowing when the coin is struck; and those that are by wear on the die as a result of that metal flowing repeatedly across the same area of the die. These are two distinctly different things, the first causes/creates luster, the second disrupts and lessens luster.

Anyway, yes luster is very fragile. And if it is touched or rubbed the effects of that can be easily seen. Luster can also be lessened and even completely destroyed by excessive toning. Or luster can be lessened or completely destroyed by using commercial coin dip products.

That said, toning that has not progressed to its terminal stage does not destroy luster but rather allows the luster to shine through the toning because the luster is still there under the toning. This continues to happen until the toning reaches, or is almost at its terminal stage.

Commercial coin products, because they contain an acid, can remove toning and expose the original luster that is underneath. Yes, the acid will always affect the luster, but if the dipping is done properly the effects are so minor that it is not noticeable. The change is so slight that it cannot even be detected by the most trained and experienced eyes. It is only by deductive reasoning that anyone, even the best expert, can tell that a coin has been dipped. This is why dipping is an acceptable practice and always has been.

But the key with dipping is "done properly". If done improperly (if the coin is immersed in the dip for too long) the acid can and will eat away the luster to the point that no luster remains.

So your comment that any treatment will destroy luster luster is simply not true. Coins can rinsed in distilled water and it will have no effect on the luster. Coins can be rinsed in acetone and it will have no effect on the luster. Coins can be dipped properly and it will have no discernible effect on the luster. Bottom line, coins can be cleaned and it will have no effect on the luster. But that is because like with anything else there is a right way to clean a coin, and thousand wrong ways to clean a coin.

 

MS70 works quite well just by dipping and rinsing (swishing around) the coin, in some cases. In other cases it will hardly do anything at all. For example, if you have a modern Proof coin that has haze on it, rinsing in MS70 will remove the haze (the haze may come or may not come back later). But if you had a well circulated coin covered with dirt and grime, rinsing in it won't do much. And since MS70 is caustic it's not exactly a good idea to let coins soak in it.

As for the massaging with a Q-tip, yeah I'm definitely against that idea. But the makers of the product tell you to do that because they know it won't do much to dirty coins if you don't. And they want to think their product works so you will buy more. It's the combination of the product and the rubbing that works. But rubbing a coin, and make no mistake using a euphemism like massage doesn't change anything you are still rubbing the coin, has consequences. Those consequences are that the rubbing will leave traces, light scratches and or hairlines.

Now a some folks are gonna say - I've done it and I can't see any - well, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. They are there, dirt and grime has grit in it and any time you rub grit around on a coin it's going to leave traces. On circulated coins it's hard to see those traces because they are mixed in with all of the other light scratches, hairlines, and contact marks that circulated coins get in the course of normal circulation. And adding more of them will always make it worse. On uncirculated coins the effects of rubbing are for most easier to see, but there will still be some who say I don't see any. But they are going to be there because luster is so fragile. Wipe luster with anything and it leaves traces.

Also, it is a good idea to do a distilled water rinse after using MS70 so as to remove all residue of the caustic product. Then stand the coin on edge on a soft towel and let it air dry for 24 hrs. Do not pat dry as is often suggested.

Bottom line, MS70 is like distilled water, acetone, or even coin dip in that it should be used to do some things and not used to do other things.

And Bud, feel free to quote.