Should ebay ban grades?

Caveat Emptor: This country is turning into a nanny state.

 

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One must learn to grade, whether buying online or at a B&M - sellers over grade everywhere. If I want a coin, yet believe it is over graded, I have no problem discussing the grade with the seller, which happens more often than not. As a general rule, sellers believe the coin grades higher than the buyer. Negotiating the grade is another way of negotiating the bottom line, the price.

 

There may be a lot of inflated grades assigned to coins on ebay, and yes sometimes intentionally. BUT, there are also some good deals to be had from overly conservative grades combined with not so great pictures. I have gotten near mint state coins described as VF and for prices appropriate to stated grade. Some people are simply not familiar with certain series and use US coin grading standards across the board.

Personally, when selling I never assign a specific grade, I simply give a general description along with clear pictures and include any issues the coin may have. For example, for a BU coin I simply put "choice example" in the title and add "original surfaces and luster" in the description.

Ebay should not ban using non-numerical grades, but people should avoid using them, as it's pretty much asking for negative/neutral feedback.

 

True. I bought this one. Seller described it as "XF" in the title. Looks more like AU55 or 58 to me!

 

Looks like a details coin to me.

 

Why?
Don't just make a statement like that.
Tell us WHY you think that way.
It will help those of us who missed something OR are learning grading.
Although the seller describing it as XF certainly raises suspicions.

 

It's just my opinion, it doesn't mean I'm right, but:
-rim has got a lot of problems, dings, nicks, first picture at 8 o'clock is the worst, and about a dozen others not so bad.
-color doesn't seem natural to me, looks cleaned, maybe dipped and rubbed with a cloth.
Got great detalis, AU-ish, but with all problems stated above I don't think it'll get a numeric grade.
That's my opinion, what's yours?

 

I think ebay already has rules forbidding a seller from describing a cleaned, damaged junk coin as BU. It is against the rules to use misleading descriptions.

 

But the question was stated as: "......... only to find out years later that you bought a cleaned damaged junk?"

Buyers can certainly see the product they receive from an eBay sale within a week (hopefully not years down the road!) so the implication here is that the buyer simply "doesn't know any better".

How different is the inexperienced eBay buyer from the inexperienced Coin Show Buyer?

 

I don't think there is nearly significant enough damage to warrant a details grade. As for cleaning... hard to tell because the photo was clearly taken under direct light. I think the seller stated XF due to confusing what appears to be some weak striking on the reverse with circulation wear.

 

I could not agree more!

 

This is valid for any "used" merchandise for sale. Cars for example, if you need to sell a used car, and the car has engine and body issues, and you describe the car in the listing as "mint" (to scam someone, or you just didn't notice the tick or the rust), is it really your fault if the buyer didn't notice the defects? Maybe you had no idea that underneath the car there's lots of rust or that the engine had a problem. Same here, maybe you have a coin that looks perfect to you, even though it's not. It's buyer's responsibility to determine condition himself.

I only created this thread as a follow-up to the "ebay to ban unsearched rolls" thread. I never sold any rolls of any kind but I find it weird to ban something that sellers clearly state they don't guarantee in any way. To me it's the same thing:
-someone selling a possibly searched roll described as a unsearched
-someone selling a possibly cleaned circulated coin as a BU one
-someone selling a rusted car as a mint one
-someone selling a coin as possibly being gold but not guaranteeing.

Sellers will always make mistakes (on purpose or not). It's the buyers that need to wake up and realize that an "unsearched roll" may not be actually be unsearched, or a BU coin might not be BU.

Exactly. Let's ban everything cause people is untrained and don't know what they're buying. Let's write on every pack of cigarettes that smoking is bad, so that adults wh0 thought it may actually do you good know what they're buying. Oh, we already do that.

Hope it's not too late.

 

Unsearched rolls and giving an opinion on con grades are very different issues.

For one thing, ebay is not going to ban grading if it is not causing a big problem.

The history of the rule changes suggests they are not attempting to protect everyone from every possible problem, but they attack deceptive practices when they get out of hand.

Unsearched roll listings are largely dishonest and deceptive. With a grade, the buyer has several fallbacks. They can see the coin in the photos. They see the coin in hand. And they have the option to get he coin verified by a third party. They are also covered by returns policies and ebay's guarantee.

How can ebay guarantee an unsearched roll anyways? The seller would likely balk at issuing a refund to an angry buyer after he/she opens the roll.

Like someone else pointed out, it is a marketplace with used merchandise. It would be ridiculous if you could not describe the item (including an opinion on grade or condition).

 

I provide a grade opinion and also state it's just an opinion. I also inform buyers I'm not responsible if a TPG gives it a different grade or a details one. I also let them know I'm not responsible for TPG fees. I offer a 14 day money back return policy and have never had an item returned.
If the pictures are clear enough (mine are) then there should be no issues.

 

You have quite a few grades attached to your raw listings ToughCoins: http://stores.ebay.com/ToughCOINS?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

I have had listings removed with uncertified coins and grade levels indicated, I thought it was against the rules.

Coins over a few hundred need to be certified. You had a cc $10 gold coin you were selling at shows for around MS62 remember that one? And it later graded MS61.

The rules are clear on listing grades on ebay; NGC, PCGS, ICG and ANACS certified only.

 

And you also have sellers that use special photography, but which may show the coin as better than when the customer gets it, and that also does not help the system of checks and balances on ebay.

I saw this customer comment: "Coin is much darker than pictures." Hopefully neutrals work against over-promoted items. I would like to see a parallel feedback system which gives the dealer an opportunity to correct the problem before limits kick in; instead ebay will often just limit sellers accounts and it does not take many problem feedbacks.

 

I think they are going in the opposite direction. The new guidelines are designed to reward sellers whose actions will result in customers returning to ebay for future purchases.

If you get more than 1 or maybe 2 negatives per thousand transactions, there's probably something wrong with your selling that could be corrected.

 

One or two negs per 1k seems to be the statistical norm for reputable coin dealers on ebay. That is still 99.8-99.9 % positive. I think if it's below 99.7% there is a problem. And if you are pulling 0 negs per 1k transaction then it shows you are going above and beyond to please even those unavoidable unreasonable buyers that make up the 1 or 2 out of a thousand.

 

"As for the price . . . $2050 was very fair for a 61 in my book."

The last one I sold, same coin, date, grade, that was maybe not quite as nice was for around $1400