Just picked up my first old gold. Any opinions on grade/value?

Problem=harshly cleaned, "whizzed", scratched, rim dinged, environmentally damaged, chopmarked, polished, tooled... Did I miss any?

 

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Wow, lots of possibilities for problelm coins... Let me try stating the issue another way.

Summary: There are two types of coins: those with problems (such as those listed in the prior post) and those without problems.

Case 1: Coins without problems can be graded, and the value of the coin can be roughly determined by the results of the grading.

Case 2: Coins with problems cannot be graded, but the value of the coin can still be roughly determined by other factors such as condition, the so-called "eye appeal", and factors outside of the damage. It is for this reason that a rating company might use a "details" slab, basically stating that if it were not for the "problem" the coin could have been graded XX. An ugly problem coin will have a lower perceived value than a pretty coin with the same problem, but neither can be assigned a formal grade.

Is that somewhat close, or am I still missing something?

 

A problem coin isn't zero--it is worth anywhere from 25-50% of the value of a gradeable coin. The numismatic value (exclusive of the bullion from the value of the gold) is gone, due to damage. Think of it as a damaged car versus a new car--depreciated value, and much less of a market for sale. That equals devalued. Nobody said the coin is worthless, just as Doug said, it will always be a problem coin, and will never receive a grade, so it is worth much less than a comparably graded coin of that year, date, and mintmark.

 

Agree problem coins are worth the value of the metal they are made from only. And that value in many cases will be hard to came by except in a pawn shop when buying.

 

I was under the impression that with the very early US coins, say the 1790s or whatnot, a holed coin with great detail would be worth significantly more than a coin worn to the point of no detail?

 

Even if all of these coins are harshly cleaned it was still a good buy at the price the opening poster paid.

 

Ex-jewelry, soldered.

 

So a details coin is of no greater value than an ungraded coin. Yes, I think that is true from what I see. But given two ungraded coins of the same year and mint, the one that looks better, i.e, is in better condition, will be worth more to a buyer. And an ungraded or ungradable coin with high numismatic value, like say an 1870 CC double eagle for example, will be worth a heck of a lot more than any common date double eagle in MS65. If an ungradable/details coin is in nice shape, say AU details, will it be as valuable as one with a moderately low grade like say VF 25? Ungradable isn't the same as worthless - in gold value or collector value. It seems like ungraded details coins have their own market. I notice that some dealers have a lot of them, and others won't touch them. Personally, I don't own them. But if somehow I came across an 1861 Paquet reverse double eagle that was cleaned, or even had major rim damage or something, it would be hard to resist at a super low price

 

That is the great thing about ungraded/ungradable coins - you can pass them around to the kids. How many people get to hold a real double eagle anymore. I certainly wouldn't want to pass a gradable coin around - not a valuable one, anyway. But ah, a details grade double eagle that isn't slabbed - very fun to handle.

 

Again I have to say "details" grade coins are not worthless/melt value, they have a substancial market with collectors. Let's face it that MOST of us, not many but most will never be able to afford gradeable gold. Myself I Collect and that means I'm happy with the best example I can afford. This is not an "investment" but a pastime that I enjoy. Also fiddlehead makes one of my favorite points holding a slab with a mint coin will never replace the history wonder and even awe to hold a worn, pitted, dinged or dented coin and wonder who might have held or used it before.

 

Doug, do you see the coins in the OP as having been cleaned?

 

I beg to differ. Selling prices are MUCH higher for slabbed coins than raw ones--it isn't just a matter of easier to sell. Slabbed coins by PCGS and NGC command higher prices, so they have increased market value. They aren't more rare; they are more monetarily valuable.

 

Well, certainly Doug is correct that the slab doesn't add any value to the actual coin, but since most, or a lot of us don't have enough expertise and/or experience to be sure that a raw coin will grade (it's often easy to make an educated guess that it won't) it means we are to some extent having to rely on TPG or CAC to confirm the condition and grade of a coin. Especially with coins of higher value (maybe over $100o or even $500) I have learned to assume that if the coin would grade then the seller probably would have done so already because it does add a lot to the selling price. The same is beginning to be true of CAC certification. That said, when one knows enough to have an educated opinion about a coin that's raw, it's a good way to make money. I've learned a lot in the last few years (often from reading Doug's great posts) and I've gotten lucky that way a few times - and I now have some dealers whose eyes I've learned to trust a bit. So I've had pretty good luck getting some coins I bought raw, certified, and I think I've done real well (about 75%) getting my graded coins CAC certified. I also have a little bundle of CC silver coins that are raw and I know that almost none of them are likely to grade- but they're neat to have anyway - and they can be handled.

DUK

 

While I don't buy problem coins knowingly, there is still a market for them. There are plenty of problem large cents that still carry value considerably more than the 8 cents of copper in them. There is still value assessed to problem rare date gold coins especially C&D mints.

As far as slabbed coins, that's all I buy in gold anymore. I will look at an XF45 gold coin that looks harshly cleaned and it's got a solid grade. Yet I look a "details cleaned" gold coin and it looks perfect. I have no idea on gold what they look at so I stay clear of it raw.

Oh, and back on topic of this thread......so the OP bought those $1 golds for about $70 each? If so, that's a heck of deal. My figures show that would be spot plus 5%.

 

Guys, you may or may not have read my 'lesson' in discovering whizzed coins. I will post the picture below. I bought the coin for 330; I bought it as a 'cleaned coin', it turned out to be whizzed. I immediately posted the coin on EBay and it sold last night for 261. I still can't believe it! I even cancelled a bid for a guy that didn't see my several comments about it and close up pictures describing the coin. I expected 100 bucks.

I said all that to say, final analysis seems to still point to the 'eye of the beholder' rules. I couldn't agree more that a pure untouched coin is far more valuable than a cleaned one and certainly more valuable than a whizzed or damaged etc coin. But the market as I see it still seems to generally ignore TPGs details designation in the case of a 'cleaned' problem coin. It won't sell for the same price as a non-details coin but will still sell and demand close to AU+ money if uncirculated.

 

Not to be argumentative because you obviously have far greater knowledge than I, but I'd like to meet your supplier. While I see the larger $10 and $20's closer to that 10% mark, I have yet to see a slabbed or raw $1 or $2.5 go anywhere near that. In fact you will almost never see an AU55 or higher $2.5Lib slabbed ever go under $300 yet you say it should go for ($167.16(gold content) + $16.72) $183.88 for common date. I'm not seeing that anywhere.

Maybe selling to a pawn shop, but almost never buying at that price. Maybe I'm missing something here.