ANCIENTS - Probus - It may be ugly but it finds a place in my collection

One of my collections is the coins of Probus from Lugdunum.

In Mid A.D. 277 Probus travelled through Lugdunum on his way to Gaul to do battle and supress the revolts that were threatening the west of his empire. Late A.D. 277 he returned through Lugdunum having succeeded in his task. Up until this point the coins of Probus from Lugdunum had simple curassed busts. To celebrate his triumphal return the mint started an issue with much more elaborate busts some of which are common form other mints. These coins are generally scarce as a minimum and I collect them whenever I am able to see ones that I can afford. Unfortunately for me there is a UK dealer who has far deeper pockets than I do that collects/hoards coins of Probus and I am now rarely able to obtain examples for my collection.

The following coin arrived this weekend and finds a welcome place in my collection.

Obv:– VIRTVS PRO-BI AVG, Radiate, helmeted, cuirassed bust left, holding spear and shield (shield decorated with Gorgon/Medusa)
Rev:– MARS VICTOR, Mars walking right, holding spear and trophy
Minted in Lugdunum (III) Emission 5 Officina 3. End A.D. 277 to Early A.D. 278
Reference(s) – Cohen 343. Bastien 242 (3 examples cited ). RIC 85 Bust Type G var (officina)



Martin

 

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You're being too harsh on that poor coin . It's not that ugly. It's well centered, has an interesting patina, and a decent strike.

 

Its got some issues but I sometimes find issues make the coin attractive, my like Sev. A. This coin I like for the various colors and the portrait. Nice buy, Martin.

 

I wouldn't have thought that any Probus coins were scarce since I see so many for sale on the internet and in my travels to Eastern Europe. But, to be honest, I really haven't looked for his coins minted at Lugdunum. It may be a rough coin, but it's not "ugly"as you suggest. Congrats.

 

The problem with Probus is there are a couple thousand varieties including some very common and some you never see. I was not aware to the UK dealer/hoarder but I did know that you don't see the good ones nearly as often as you did in the 1990's when I was interested in them and got most of what I have. Probus includes some real rarities that could slip by someone who did not know the series and some also rare types that will draw attention to themselves. I only have three from Lugdunum and none are particularly spectacular when you compare them to some of the fancy types available from other mints.
There are many posted here:
http://probvs.net/probvs/

 

The last decent estimate I saw of the number of varieties of Probus coins was in excess of 30,000. I have about 150 coins of Probus from Lugdunum with some duplicates making about 120 varieties and as such only cover less than half of the 280 varieties that Bastien notes from Lugdunum. The majority of these types are going to be very hard to come by. The Imperial Mantle with eagle tipped sceptre type, which is common for other mints is rare here and the last example I saw for sale made >$1,300 and sold within 2 days.
I will never complete this collection but will take some small satisfaction in picking up examples like this one every now and again.

 

Here are some of my more noteworthy coins from this illusive issue:-













Leaving the ugliest till last... which is one of only three examples known from this mint with this bust type all from this die pair. I was will to take this one in ANY condition.

 

Martin => I actually love the looks of your OP-coin ...

=> yup, I am a total fan of cool coins with a couple of war-wounds on 'em (it's a total winner!!) ... beautiful, random blotches!!

 

Can't say I wouldn't pass on it, if it was a price I like too .

 

Ah but there's the kicker with this. Even in this condition I have to pay enough that I would be able to obtain an EF, fully silvered example with the same bust from Rome.

 

And here is another ugly addition to my Lugdunum collection. This one suffers from some surface corrosion but it is very welcome.

Probus - RIC 114 - Bust Type G
Obv:– VIRTVS PROBI AVG, Radiate, helmeted, cuirassed bust left, holding spear and shield
Rev:– VIRTVS AVG, Soldier standing left, holding Victory and spear, left hand on shield
Minted in Lugdunum (IIII) Emission 5 Officina 4. End A.D. 277 to Early A.D. 278
Reference:– Cohen 828. Bastien 259 (7 examples cited). RIC 114 Bust Type G (Scarce)

 

Martin, I notice there are a few Lugdunum mint Probus on ebay at the moment.....one has no officina and is priced at $600! Does no mintmark usually mean mega bucks with these?

 

I LOVE ancients, don't have any but absolutely love the look of them

 

You might as well join in and make your first buy. You know you want to. Come over to the Dark Side and you will never return.

 

Then you MUST buy one......or two.....or...

 

All no officina mark coins at Lugdunum are rare. Whether they justify mega bucks or not is just about the demand. How many collectors are there out there that are willing to pay the premium that is being asked for the few that come on the market. I have been aware of this coin (on sale by my Probus Nemesis) and cannot justify the price to myself. Perhaps someone else can.

I have this horrible example from a different issue.

 

Of course a problem with many ancients is demonstrated by this Probus/Minerva which lost the exergue "I" to a small flan so is less desirable even than a coin centered the other way losing the head of the reverse figure. Such a coin might be identifiable by comparison to other specimens but I, at least, prefer ID data to be on flan.

 

One of the big problems with some coins of Probus is that the same type with matching obverse legend, bust type, reverse legend and reverse type occurs without identifying mintmarks from a variety of mints. For these coins they can only be differentiated by style. I have seen many coins attributed to Lugdunum because that was the first matching entry in RIC that the dealer found for a coin that were in fact Cyzicus and in one case Siscia rather than Lugdunum. For coins that really don't have any distinguishing features other than style this can be a problem for the beginner collector. Coins such as the one that Doug illustrates just add to the problem. Just because the officina mark isn't visible doesn't mean that it was not intended.
Martin