How are coins properly dipped?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Savy, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    There are many things that come into play here. Yeah, to a degree it does depend on the coin. With certain coins the TPGs are much more lenient than they are with other coins when it comes to designating them as having been harshly/improperly cleaned, or not. While at the same time with other coins the TPGs are much tougher when it comes to assigning the harshly/improperly cleaned designation.

    Then there is the inconsistency issue. You can send a coin in and it's labeled as harshly cleaned. You disagree and send it in again. This time it comes back in a regular slab. Or, you send in a coin that is still sealed in the original mint packaging, and it comes back to you as harshly cleaned. Obviously there is no way in the world it actually was harshly cleaned, but yet it was still designated as such. There are other scenarios as well, and all of them happen more often than some realize.

    You also have to realize that there are a great many different ways to harshly or improperly clean a coin and all of them can and usually do result in the coin being designated as such. And each of these many different methods result in the coin looking different than those harshly cleaned with another method. Other times some that have been harshly cleaned by any method will slip through and be slabbed because of the inconsistency issue.

    Then there is the issue of you. Meaning the coin may not look to have been harshly cleaned to you, but to someone with the requisite experience, to someone with trained eyes, it does. This also happens a lot, a whole lot. Being able to correctly and accurately identify a harshly cleaned coin in all of its forms is one the hardest things there is to learn in numismatics.

    A coin having light scratches or hairlines is is only 1 of the many different indicators that a coin has been harshly cleaned. You can have a coin that has been harshly cleaned that doesn't have a scratch or a hairline on it, not a one. Another indicator is the coin being dark close to design elements and/or in the recesses and protected areas while being light in the fields and on the higher points. This indicator can be particularly difficult to correctly identify because circulated coins can have a similar look. But the key word is similar and similar does not mean the same, it means it kind of looks the same, but different. But a pair of experienced, trained eyes will recognize immediately that it has been harshly cleaned while others will not see it all.

    On circulated coins another indicator can be what you don't see, like the coin having surfaces that are smoother than they should be for a coin with that given amount of wear. Or it can a surface that is too rough that is the indicator. On uncirculated coins breaks in the luster can be an indicator of harsh cleaning, but breaks in the luster can also be a sign of wear, and you have to be able to tell the difference between the two.

    Another indicator is the color of the coin. A coin being the wrong color in the wrong places, given what the coin is, is a dead giveaway that the coin has been harshly cleaned.

    In other cases there may only be a very small area of the coin that was harshly cleaned. It can be something as simple as someone wiping an area no bigger than the end of a pencil eraser with a cloth. This is commonly called a wipe and that is reason enough for the harshly cleaned designation. The improper removal of spots, even tiny spots, is reason for the harshly cleaned designation.

    All of this is merely touching the surface of the subject of harshly/improperly cleaned coins. Like I said it is one of the hardest things there is to learn if for no other reason than because there is so much to learn about the subject.

    As for my thoughts on your coin, yeah it looks to have been harshly/improperly cleaned to me.
     
    imrich and Lucky Cuss like this.
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Harsh cleaning, improper cleaning, even altered surfaces sometimes - they all fall under the same umbrella. Like I said, there are thousand different ways to do it and they all can look different from each other.
     
  4. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    It would be my favorite too . It's a beauty . I even love the adjustment marks . I've been thinking of getting a similar ly graded '95 Bust half . To go with my Bust halves . When I fix my Harley and sell it , plus I just gave my kid the last $4000 I've been giving him for his Masters . So some coin funds should be headed my way . ;)
     
    Mainebill likes this.
  5. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    I bough a beautiful to me Unc Detailed Bust half , for the life of me I couldn't see where it was harshly cleaned . One area had a tiny break in the luster , but I figured that couldn't be it . Well one day while looking at it my heart skipped a beat , tiny hairlines that you couldn't see except at a very precise angle no bigger than a 1/4 " square . I finally found out the why . Now I know that look on most coins that have it . Just more experience .
     
  6. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    I've looked and I got plenty of experience wasn't labeled improper or harsh it's just got a surface gloss like many other early coins that been dipped the colors right etc just has a shine that's a bit unnatural for a circulated coin that's the giveaway
     
  7. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Thanks is pcgs slabbed how I got it why I settled for a details grade is a great strike non offensive adjustment marks and great detai and no evidence of cleaning other then the glossy ness of the surface
     
  8. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    While. I'm not arguing for a second that this dollar has been dipped or chemically cleaned it has the surface quality of such I just wonder why tpgs will sometimes grade coins like this clean and other times not and would it be worth my while to crack it out let it retone more and resubmit it in a few years that was my point of all this
     
  9. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    To me, it looks cleaned. The fields don't look right. It is a very nice coin...but I agree with the TPGs assessment of it. I'd like to see it in hand, but based on the photos I agree with them.
     
  10. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    A decent looking coin with good detail, but unlikely it will ever get a number unless you found someone who knew how to get it to. Here's a little secret on pricing those and similar "rare" coins. If VF says $5000 and XF says $10000 and the coin graded VF30 you wouldn't get in between money for it, maybe a slight premium over VF money. Just look at auction pictures and what they sold for. A dealer at a CT shop who is a PNG member has a nice looking VF in his shop. I said "Richard" why don't you get the coin graded? I forget what he said, but last I was in there he made a motion like a fisher.
     
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