Is This An Error Or A Counterfit

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by helpmeplease, Jan 11, 2007.

  1. helpmeplease

    helpmeplease Senior Member

    Hi I Had This Coin For A Year And Just Today I Saw This Markings I Can See The Roman # 4 {iiii} And The Leters{ De }on The Back Side Of The Coin And The Letter H Of The Word Hispania Is Missing Please Help Me, Any Opinions On How This Happens Is Good Too
     

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  3. helpmeplease

    helpmeplease Senior Member

    Bigger Pic

    The 4 I I I I Are Were The H Was To Be THE CURVED LINE IS THE BACK OF THE MANS HEAD ON THE OTHER SIDE
     

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  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Help:
    FIrst, welcome.
    Second, the IIII is the way that they frequently wrote IV (or 4), common and usual for the Spanish coins of this era. I have a couple and they are the same.
    As for the H in Hispania missing that is probably from the strike.
    It does not appear to be a counterfeit based on those comments, but that is not a guarantee of its being genuine.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Gotta admit, I've never seen one of these before, never even heard of one - at least not on this type of coin. It appears to me that the coin is a flip-over double strike error. Now I can't say the coin is genuine without more info. But I see nothing to make me think it isn't.

    I think if it were me, I'd send that coin to an expert - Dan Sedwick - and have him confirm and authenticate it.
     
  6. helpmeplease

    helpmeplease Senior Member

    thanks

    hi thanks for the welcome im glad too hear there or more like it i cant understan how the i i i i got there cus the front ones are popped out and the back ones are punched in
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    That does make a difference. I should have picked up on it, but didn't. Sometimes in pics it hard to tell if an image is incuse or in relief. Anyway, what has happened then is that someone has taken two of these coins and struck them together, one on top of the other. That makes it an intentionally altered coin, not an error.
     
  8. helpmeplease

    helpmeplease Senior Member

    maybe but

    The I I I I On The Back Side Look Like There Were There First, And Then The Word Hispan Got Struck ,so It Happend At The Mint, But Im Not Sure
     
  9. belg_jos

    belg_jos Member

    Isn't this a simple case of Die Clashing?

    Looks to be just that to me.

    If it would be a counterfeit by striking 2 coins on eachother, the main design would have been more smudged out than that.

    Regards

    Jos from Belgium
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Kind of hard to have die clashing on hand operated screw press though.
     
  11. belg_jos

    belg_jos Member

    Hmm, still I think it's more likely to be the case than other options that were mentioned earlier. The dies could be screwed onto eachother on a mondaymorning ;)
     
  12. Tom Maringer

    Tom Maringer Senior Member

    Actually... it's very easy to clash dies on a screw press! If the coiner fumbles the blank placement (like snagging with a sleeve) and the ram is already on the way down (as can easily happen, especially when a second person is spinning the ram) it can be impossible to stop it in time to avoid a clash. I have done this. It's not fun but it happens.
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Willing to take your word for it Tom, you know more about that than me. Still don't think this coin is the result of any die clash though.
     
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