Ticked off LCS?

Op take it as you want. Stop buying coins and educate yourself!

Walk into his shop and if he's not busy ask them if he would be interested in mentoring you. If no, then ask if there is a person or a club that would be willing to help you learn. Hands on learning is always the best and fastest way to learn. Education Education

 

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Speaking of the paranoia developed over the unfortunate Trade dollar thread, perhaps he can tell us if this gentleman (the B&M) was one of those who shared his opinion on the coin, and if so, what the opinion was.

I don't believe anyone is saying that you should "feel badly"; only that you're expecting a lot, refusing to see it, and blaming him for something of your own doing.

You're right... no one is forcing him to take your returns. He most certainly did it in the spirit of helping a newbie and with the hopes of forming a long-term business relationship, but it seems as if you refuse to accept this or look at it from his side.

As for claiming this is your way of avoiding returns, that's a cop out. It is your responsibility to know what you're buying, and if you truly wanted to do something to avoid returning freely made purchases, you would be investing in yourself instead of relying on the opinion of forum members. Blisskr brought up a fine point in that between the returns and taking photos, this gentleman could be concerned that you're offering his inventory on ebay. Believe it or not, this kind of behavior is not unheard of and I've actually experienced it. Please try to put yourself in his shoes before you pass judgement; this may be a hobby for you, but it's a business for him and one cannot keep a roof over their heads or feed their family by being a doormat. Respect begets respect, Doug.

Do you honestly believe, just because you are a sometimes customer, that you're always right? You admitted that you've only spent a few hundred with him over many months, so how much do you honestly think he's making off of you? I hate to break it to you, but chances are that it's a lot less than you think.

"So screw him", huh? After how this man has been willing to hold a newbie's hand and has treated you very well, you think "screw him" is the answer, just because he's not willing to coddle you or cave any longer? With all due respect, Doug, he probably feels the same about you.

I do hope you'll answer my above question in regards to the earlier Trade dollar debacle.

 

Thanks for your polite and friendly reply.

He thought the trade dollar was legit.

 

To the point, yes, but not meant to be disrespectful. I apologize if you thought otherwise.

Thank you for answering. I respectfully suggest that you try to better your relationship with this gentleman.

 

I will. Definitely. I may be naive, but I don't mean to put people out.

 

Coins are not a commodity (yet) like widgets. They are bought and sold and it is a type of business where haggling is expected. Some dealers get bent out of shape about it, but most dont. Many of the bigger dealers price things considerably higher knowing they will have to negotiate.

The op was being annoying (sorry) and the dealer accepted returns when he did not have to, unless the op discovered they were cleaned or in some way misrepresented. To answer your question- if I go to a service business and when I leave discover that there is something not quite right with the repair to lets say my car, you better believe I will take it back as many times as I have to.

In the case of shoes you wouldnt unless you realize they do not fit or find a defect or the break quickly. But you generally get an exchange where you can't really do that with coins.

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Who said? The opposite is expected and I bet it is covered by the ANA code of ethics. Collectors do not handle hundreds or thousands of coins. Month, dealers do. It is expected that a dealer offer a fair price.

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The saying, "the customer is always right" has been done since around the last time Susan B Anthony Dollars were minted...... I'm just saying.

 

doug.

you asked the people on this board question. the vast majority of opinions were that you acted inappropriately. you clearly do not accept the answer to the question you asked. we are perfect strangers. we have no dog in this fight. to be perfectly honest i don't care if you annoy this guy or not. but either learn how to listen to constructive criticism or stop asking questions. your choice

 

When I sold fireworks I would have been quite upset if a customer took a picture, let alone not buying. That's an industry where retail customers frequently tried to haggle. The people who got the best deals from me were normally unfamiliar with fireworks and didn't try to haggle. We

 

Question.

Do you think most of the dealers if they had a choice would eliminate their customers who haggle? More specifically, if they could push a button and all their potential sales that would involve haggling went away, about what percentage do you think would do so?

I'd bet it is a fairly small percentage. And if so, while they may not like getting haggled with, if they still want that business then they can't really complain and therefore it can't be expected of customers not to do so right? Do you see what I'm saying?

 

Doug, you are saying that dealers feel like they price their coins fair (most of the time) judging by these inside conversations you have had with many of them and through your experience on forums, and they dont really want to haggle.

You are also saying that many customers/collectors feel that it is the natural way of things to want to negotiate, based off of your many years being involved in coin forums

So heres the dilemma, YOU and YOU alone have had the necessary privilege to peek inside how the dealers feel. It is NOT our duty as a buyer to assume anything about a dealer and likewise if ANY of them feel haggling is an issue, then THEY should have signs visible that says all prices are final and non-negotiable, whether at a B&M or a show. To further that, any time a counter offer is mentioned it should be responded with a firm 'NO' and then eventually people realize that dealer isnt willing to wiggle on his prices. So to me the dealer is at fault for not properly defining how they wish to do business, since they have the coins and the structure in place to be selling.

The last part of all of this is that you are missing is that the buyer is the most important part of this relationship. I have all ideas that we can do without 'dealers' and just sell or trade among collectors or through auction houses, or mail order or ample other means that dealers wont get their feelings hurt over some haggling. Whats a dealer going to do without any customers? Not exist.

If not a single customer comes through your shop or you are priced over what a normal individual deems acceptable, then you wont be in business very long, and again there are a million and one reasons why even a 'good' dealer could be wrong on the price.

As just an example, Dealer Tom buys some bulk graded coins. Lets say MS-66 Walkers. He gets them in, glances over them, and prices them mid-high retail. What he doesnt notice is that NGC or PCGS had a bad day and slightly over-graded a few of the coins (but these are all thats left are the over-graded examples when I walk in). Now from the perspective you are coming from, hes a reputable dealer, and I should just accept his price, even though I dont agree with the grade and feel it is more of a 65.

My perspective, and the very nature of coin collecting being so subjective, tells me that I better counter the dealers price as I would be over-paying because I dont agree with the experts grade.

 

Just in my opinion, you are right about the two-way street, respect thing. You gotta give some to get some for sure.

I just think out of all the things that should be mentioned, haggling is toward the middle or the bottom. Just being courteous, engaging, and respectful is about the most I am willing to put forward with a dealer until the relationship is built. Then, once he starts give me good customer prices most every time i try and buy something, well then yeah, I can see haggling falling to the way side. However at that point you are more dealing with a 'friend' than just some bloke dealer.

 

In the case of a coin show it is not too complicated. It's the setting. These types of events, whether it is a flea market, or a coin show, an antiques show, a farmers market, or whatever, haggling is part of it.

Now, if you're at a coin shop, that's a little different.

 

And don't forget, a lot of dealers don't even put prices on their coins. They just make up a price on the spot based on the grey sheet and how you look. So they are asking for you to question the price.

 

Great conversation (note I didn't say argument!). Anyway, as a collector, this is my code of ethics...

- if I go into a store and see no prices on items, then I feel like I am 'allowed' to haggle without feeling any guilt. I can haggle in two ways (at least) ... 1) I could ask what the price of the coin is then pay it, counter offer, or say no thanks, or ... 2) I could ask if he would accept $X dollars for the coin, then go from there.

- if there are prices on the items, then I will either pay it, leave (without comment), or leave and somehow politely let the owner know that I think the price is too high and why I think so*.

* I will be fair in the reasons that I give to him about why I think it is too high (such as not graded correctly, priced incorrectly for the date/mint/rarity). I will not, however, say that he has marked up an item way too much (who am I to tell him what profits he should try to make), I will just leave without buying it and without comment.