"Naked" 8 reales - 1765 Mexico

Dear friends,

Many greetings to everybody! I am new in this forum and recently I have found this piece in a coin market:

- Weight: 26,71 gr.
- Diameter: 38,20 mm
- Thickness: 2,44 mm

What do you think about its authenticity???





Following, you have also some pictures from a microscope view of the same coin (between 20 and 40 zooms):








Thanks a lot for your feedback!

 

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Most of your pics won't come up, at least for me, so I'm hard pressed to make a judgment. The weight's within the normal parameters, however, which is a good sign.

I'd like to know, though, what exactly is a "coin market"?

 

Dear mates,

Thank you very much for your replies! And congratulations for the originality of this forum, which design is quite different from what I have seen until today about coins.

To tell you the truth, I still haven’t found anyone who has seen something wrong on this 8 reales…

For your information, I have found this piece by coincidence in China. That “coin market” I meant is a place focused on native collectors, where there are small shops selling ancient and new coins, bank notes and stamps. Mostly (around 95%) Chinese series only.

Of course, even in China there is a probability that this 8R is genuine and in such case I would buy it. But I am not an expert so first of all I want to make sure of the authenticity. Thanks a lot for your comments again!

 

Lucky Cuss, could you finally see the pictures on the microscope? May be after some time the image is downloaded. If not, I can send it to you via private message.

Is anyone else having the same trouble?? Thank you.

 

More of your imges are now loading for me. I don't see anything that sets off any major alarms for me, but I think you're entirely prudent in having reservations given the venue in which the coin is being offered. Ocho reales denomination coins were widely circulated in China, although this is an earlier issue than is normally seen in that context, and doesn't seem to have been chopmarked as is so often the case, so those ancillary aspects would be of some concern to me.

I think this may well come down to how it's priced as to whether you're willing to assume the risk. I'd add that even if it's genuine, the apparent condition isn't so terrific that it'd be a "must have" for my collection in any event.

I realize all that probably doesn't help you much in your decision, but unfortuntely given the totality of the circumstances this isn't an obvious call.

Oh, and since nobody has done so yet, let me say, "Welcome to Coin Talk."

 

Friend, thanks a lot for your advice. Exactly, there is 1% probability (if not less) to find a genuine coin there

Buuut.... on the other hand, and considering the images only: is there something else that makes you think this is a counterfeit?

 

Lucky Cuss, thank you also for your help and your welcome!

It seems strange to me too that if this 8 Reales was circulated in china 200 years ago, why doesn't include any chopmark? Well that is only a possible scenario.

By the way, I have seen many times your avatar coin in some markets for tourists in China. Those are clearly fake coins in street markets.

For the coin in question, the price is not any bargain precisely: it is the same one that they ask in Spain for a genuine 8R or even more.

We keep in touch!

 

Then the choice is pretty staightforward - give it a pass. I would think you'll be able to fairly easily find a better one you can be sure of, sold by reputable dealer. In fact, maybe even a PCGS/NGC authenticated example.

 

On a side note, there are two variations for this year and your coin perfectly matches one of them. Again, not a guarantee of authenticity, but it narrows the possibilities down to only two: genuine, or high end modern copy like the ones Doug (GDJMSP) mentioned.

 

Gentlemen thank you very much for your advice.

Doug, this 8 Reales coin belongs to a collectors market (indoor place not for tourists) and the 8 Pesos coin like Lucky Cuss avatar, yes I have seen it dozens of times in a street market for tourists. Even a person who is not an expert can guess they are fake ones.

If the 8R coin is genuine, we are facing a “Black Swan”. If it results to be a high end replica, all of us we will learn something useful I hope.

Numismat, it sounds interesting what you said: what does it mean the two variations of the Mexican 1765 8R? Are there two kind of rims, or?

 

Doug, thank you! I never noticed the lower arc before. From now on I will pay attention to this detail.

 

I was told that the rim is not from the Mexico mint. But I have seen before other Mexican 8R from 1765 with the same one and they come from well-known auction companies. What do you think?

 

I see nothing untoward about the rim, or inconsistent with its being from the Mexico mint. However, that would in and of itself not constitute a reason to buy it.

 

I can see why someone might say that about the rim, it looks somewhat thin and flat compared to many coins of this type. But, as you said this can be found on other examples from reputable sources. It's more important to make sure the edge is consistent, the rims can vary.

 

Thank you colleagues. I keep in touch with you if I have some other interesting comments.

 

A very interesting article on fake pillars:

http://www.counterfeitcoins.com/marc-8reales/Counterfeit-Spanish-Milled-Dollars.html