Jan 27, 2014: tell Doug what's wrong with this Morgan

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Dougmeister, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    1899-O

    1) Yes, it is unslabbed
    2) No, I didn't buy it
    3) Dealer calls it a MS63/MS64
    4) I do not see any signs of cleaning
    5) Greysheet bids: MS63=$60; MS64=$68 (Jan 3rd issue)
    6) Dealer is asking $65
    7) I don't know enough about counterfeit Morgans to tell if it's real.

    If it is real, I concur with the grade and think it is a fair price. Agree or disagree, and why?

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Dougmeister, Jan 27, 2014
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  3. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    ROLLJUNKIE, Jan 27, 2014
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  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Personally I'd pass, based on the pics looks like has some issues in the right hand obv field.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 27, 2014
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  5. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    A whole slew of them already graded you could pick from, unless you specifically want it raw:

    ebay search
     
    geekpryde, Jan 27, 2014
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    JPeace$ likes this.
  6. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    Thanks guys.

    This one supposedly came straight out of a bank roll that the dealer bought a while back. He sold off most of them, keeping the nicest five.

    At least I didn't buy it.
     
    Dougmeister, Jan 27, 2014
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  7. bqcoins

    bqcoins Olympic Figure Skating Scoring System Expert

    Not buying that it came out of a bank roll...no matter how many times I've heard that. :) That being said, I'd pass just because of the weird, what at least appears to be a greenish-yellowish toning that looks wiped from the cheek into the right field.
     
    bqcoins, Jan 27, 2014
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  8. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    When the coins were minted, they never went in a bank roll. They were stored in canvas bags. IMO, any Morgans being sold in a paper roll were not put there by the mint or a bank.

    Anyway, without better pictures, hard to judge the coin.
    • It's real
    • Looks to have nice luster
    • Also appears there is something on the obverse starting with the lower hair curls and continuing into the right field.
    • On the lower cheek/jaw, it has that annoying mark from rubbing against other coins. I personally hate that mark, but have seen it on many Morgans. Even on '65's and some '66's.
    • If it didn't have that mysterious discoloration (could be photo issues), I'd say that's a MS63 easy and possible a 64.
    I will say this Doug, after countless advice to stay away from raw coins, you just can't help yourself. My advice, buy all the raw, ungraded coins you can. Disregard all the advice you've been given. It's only money.
     
    JPeace$, Jan 27, 2014
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  9. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Believe it, sometimes.

    One of my favorite dealers has an original (really) roll of CC's, I think is was 1882.

    Yes, it was real, and a matched roll
     
    Treashunt, Jan 28, 2014
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  10. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    Not saying it isn't true, but how does he know it's an original roll and that all the coins inside match without being able to see them?
     
    ROLLJUNKIE, Jan 28, 2014
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  11. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Two things worry me about this coin. To me it has the look of a coin stored in some type of PVC holder. I'm seeing a hint of green and haze. The right field of the obverse looks like it needs to be looked at in hand.
     
    ldhair, Jan 28, 2014
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  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    He doesn't until he opens it up and looks.

    There's a couple of things when you talk about rolls of Morgans. First of all, how do you define the word "original" ? And perhaps even more importantly, how does the person telling you that a roll is "original" define it ?

    When somebody says the words original roll, in the mind of the person hearing the words they conjure up the idea of coins untouched and unseen for years. In the case of Morgans, for many decades even. But when were Morgans put into paper rolls ? For the most part it wasn't until the early 1960's, and that only lasted for a few years. Prior to that there simply weren't that many of them around, not in banks anyway. And most of those rolls that you could get from banks, I used to buy them myself when I was a kid, were composed of circulated coins of mixed dates and mints.

    Rolls of uncirculated Morgans, all of the same date/mint, existed, but they came from coin dealers for the most part. Dealers who had gotten their hands on one of the $1,000 bags released from the govt. vaults in the '60s. And the dealers would put them into rolls and sell them to their customers. So could you say those rolls were original ? Yeah, but they din't come from any bank, and most definitely not from the govt., not in roll form.

    Now it's been 50 years since those days, since you could, if you were lucky, get your hands on an original roll of Morgans, let alone an original bag. Are there any that still exist ? Yeah probably, but they are about as scarce as you can get. And they get more scarce with every day that passes. For somebody, somewhere, is going to break them up and sell the coins individually, if they ever get their hands on any.

    You also have to realize that for many years some dealers and unscrupulous individuals would assemble the required number, 1000, Morgans of the same date/mint and then put them into bags and offer to sell them as an original bag, hopefully for more money than they had in the coins. And because of people's love to gamble they could pretty much be assured that they would be successful. Lots of those "original rolls" came to be in this manner, far more than were ever real original rolls.

    So when you hear or read the words original roll of Morgans, the first thing that should pop into your head is a very large dose of skepticism for very few of them ever existed to begin with, let alone still exist today.

    But yeah, it's possible. Of course it's also possible that a meteorite will strike your car while you are driving down the freeway today ;)
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 28, 2014
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  13. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    So because the mint never put Morgans' in rolls, basically the only difference between a "BU" roll and an "original" roll is the implication that no one has seen the coins in the "original" roll? If I wasn't so naïve, I would say that sounds like a marketing ploy.
     
    ROLLJUNKIE, Jan 28, 2014
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The mint never put any coins into rolls - ever.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 28, 2014
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    JPeace$ likes this.
  15. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    because he opened the roll, and I saw them
     
    Treashunt, Jan 28, 2014
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  16. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    agreed.
     
    Treashunt, Jan 28, 2014
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